to post a friendly reminder about school residential trips?

[ErmNoNoNo]

Seems as good a time as any: lots of school posts (as always in AIBU), the wine is flowing (Friday) and the summer term is coming up (come on weather please)...

It seems every year that there are many parents that are genuinely shocked to find out that teacher and TAs who accompany the class on residential school visits do not get paid a single penny more than their normal wage.

Yes, we volunteer. Yes, we deal with all the tears. Yes, we are on duty 24 hours and sometimes get VERY little sleep. Yes, we deal with the vomit. Yes, we encourage and make sure they get the absolute best out of their time there. Yes, we deal with all medical issues even though, surprisingly we are not qualified. Yes, when its mid-week, we also have to go back into work the next day.

Yes... we would really, really appreciate it if you just say 'thank you', when you pick your child up at he end of it.

(all you REASONABLE parents, I know you do - but honestly, the amount of parents who think we get paid for this would shock you)

People in the private sector working 60 plus hours who receive higher salaries and 'hefty' bonuses (!) generally receive that because they are very skilled and experienced in their particular area of work.

Are you implying that teachers are neither skilled nor experienced, thus undeserving?

"I think most teachers on the whole do a great job but the my life's harder than yours thing really gets me down."

In fairness, teachers are usually only responding to the "your job's easy, with long holidays and you go home at 3.30 and all you do is play all day" bollocks that we get accused of.

I know quite a few nurses and doctors, who may sometimes moan about a specific patient and their family but they just don't whinge about all patients in the same way teachers do about parents in particular.

All teachers? Do they, really?

What a sweeping generalisation.

& I always make a point of thank yous.

I do think teachers jobs are hard & the problem is everyone gets into generalisations (see). The need to write a post to remind all parents even though the op said that lots do thank. The school newsletter used to berate a few. All teachers moan, all parents are awful etc.

I only went on one residential. It cost me my entire month's food budget in pet sitting and extra clothing (we had to wear tracksuit bottoms and needed waterproofs). I then spent the entire journey coach sick and have food allergies so couldn't eat much at all while there. I didn't moan about it, just requested a move out of that year group at the end of the year. I quite literally couldn't afford to do it again.
DH and I will shortly be taking over a retail business. I have been amazed at what would be allowable expenses to set against tax!

My mum was a nurse on and I never heard her complaining about patients or their lack of gratitude. Yes she received plenty of gifts over the years but she never expected them or to hear thanks. Even now she is retired and works as a carer she doesn't look for it from her clients.
I have to say when I was a teacher it never occurred to me to expect thanks or gratitude. I hated receiving presents as well.

Fwiw I definitely think if someone is out of pocket because they attended a residential trip they absolutely should be claiming those back. That's nonsense.

Speaking from my own experience as as a TA for 8 years:

• we (TAs) were absolutely expected to take our turn on the residential trips. No real choice at all. Only hell or high water would get you out of it and even then there'd be a great deal of cats bum faces and barely disguised bad feeling from some of the teaching staff (You were also expected, by the way, on a crap salary, to do 30 to 40 mins unpaid overtime at the beginning and end of every school day. Also come in during the summer holidays and do unpaid overtime cleaning helping the teachers prepare the classroom for the next year. Go in in the evening sometimes to prepare and supervise for school plays and after school events. Unpaid.)

Yes i've done residential trips. Yes they were part fun, part very hard work. It was always called 'volunteering', but there was nothing voluntary about it at our school. In my experience the attitude of the parents at pick up time was pretty much off my radar. Last of my worries. Still in work mode getting the kids and their baggage safely off the coach and into the school building. Looking forward to getting home and seeing my own kids again. Cannot honestly say if i was thanked very often by the parents or not.

Speaking as a parent:

I would love to see the back of res. trips. We could rarely afford to send our DCs them in primary and felt the stigma of that. Further down the line we were a bit better off, but the totally ridiculous cost of some of the trips in secondary meant that mostly my DDs wouldn't even bother mentioning them at home.

A thread reminding parents to thank the staff? Meh. Better pay for the many hard working part time members of staff would be more welcome, plus less great expectations of their time and the 'kicking down' from the senior staff too.

Lem of course people can't claim back costs such as clothing or pet sitting. Nobody who is in a job in the public sector can ever claim back these costs. I worked with young children in the public sector and had so many clothes ruined by kids. Young kids putting paint, clay, glue on my t shirts or jumpers by accident. I also had to pay for pet sitting as a youth worker on residential trips. You can never claim back these costs.

Justified or not teachers do have a reputation for whinging and therefore we don't help ourselves when we do so. I decided that I would only ever say positive things about my job in public. That in itself is not the answer because like all jobs there are definitely things to moan about and if nobody raises these concerns nothing would change. I also decided that once I found myself in danger of becoming the whinging stereotype I would leave the profession. Again not an answer for everyone as we would have no teachers.

I do miss it dreadfully though. However I could not hold a candle to most of MN's teachers and therefore I doubt the profession particularly misses me.

How about we all remember to say thank you every time someone does something extra for us or our relatives? Regardless of occupation.

I am sure the 14 weeks paid annual leave, plus inset days, occasional days and the Christmas shopping day our teachers have, more than makes up for three days of residential trip not forgetting the six hour working day with breaks included.

Oh windchime, and I was trying to be a thread fluffer too.
Shall I be the first to say that INSET days are work days and were taken out of our holidays which used to be longer? And sunnier, and filled with wine and roses?

I did think that the holidays made up for everything else, all jobs have positives and negatives and teaching is no different. I mainly left because I felt it was unfair to go almost straight from one maternity leave onto another . I would also like to work part time and that was not possible.

To be honest I am inherently lazy and therefore would rather not work at all, so at the moment I don't. But if I did work I would love to go back.

I like being FT supply, I don't get paid in the holidays but I do get to do the fun stuff that I joined the profession for. I'm also going on a 5 day residential in the summer with one of my schools because they were short-handed.
But I'm not abseiling. Never again.
I'd rather deal with the wailing and the whinging.

I am sure the 14 weeks paid annual leave, plus inset days, occasional days and the Christmas shopping day our teachers have, more than makes up for three days of residential trip not forgetting the six hour working day with breaks included.

I just don't know where to start with this one, so I think I will walk away from the laptop, and not bother.

Obviously someone on the wind-up, rollon. No one's that stupid.

YANBU - doesn't do any harm to remind people that teachers aren't paid for these extras even if they already knew (as I did).

I do always thank teachers/Brownie leaders etc but it all tends to be a bit of a rush immediately after the trip. I will make more of an effort in future to find the teacher at a better moment and properly express my gratitude (with some nice chocs too ;-).

Yes, I work unpaid overtime too, sometimes overnight, and have to pay extra for childcare while I do it, but I don't kid myself it's the same as having responsibility for other people's children for days/nights at a time.

I was so pleased to have the opportunity a few years back to tell my Guide leader how much difference she had made to my childhood. I'd done polite thanks at the time, but not really appreciated how much time and effort she'd put into it all. As an adult, it humbled me that someone would put that much effort into giving other people's children some wonderful and memorable experiences (she really was amazing).

Then a while ago, DD had a medical emergency at Brownies. Turned out fine but the leader wasn't to know that. It brought home to me again just how much responsibility youth leaders, teachers etc take on voluntarily (for whatever reason!). I entrust my precious children to these people and I will be forever extremely grateful.

But it's windchime, Noble!
Don't you recognise the name, the style, the grumpiness?
I've always though that she shoots hippies like me as a recreational activity whilst harrumphing in her tweeds.

noble can you explain why that's stupid?

I don't agree with the 6-hour working day comment as I reckon teachers will spend about a 37-hour standard week on their actual core job. Then I know they have marking planning etc etc - but all professional jobs need overtime which is accounted for in salaries.

But what about the paid time away from the workplace? I am pretty sure I would put myself out a bit more for my employer during the time I was "at work" if he was going to pay me for 12 weeks when I wasn't actually present at the office. Are you saying that is complete rubbish and that all of what people see as "extra 7-8 weeks hols" is spent working? I just don't see that in my teacher friends' and my parents' lives.

I wouldn't be a teacher in a million years as I know it's tough and all the bullshit imposed from the government etc must be hideous. But the working hours seem pretty good to me.

And you should definitely thank the teachers who do the residentials or any trips or clubs the activities wouldn't happen without them --and it's just good manners.

In fairness, teachers are usually only responding to the "your job's easy, with long holidays and you go home at 3.30 and all you do is play all day" bollocks that we get accused of.

^^ fair point clam which maybe tempers my comment above this one.. hadn't refreshed the thread and seen this perspective.

The holidays are not paid, I never worked in them so that is not a whinge but a statement of fact.

I did not really have a problem with the working hours partly because I was doing nothing in the holidays but 37 hours would have been an impossible dream. I worked far less than most MN teachers but I was going between 60 and 75 hours a week
Again not a whinge, in return I had 12 weeks off and the flexibility to fit my hours around the children.

Err. aren't they? I thought you got paid every month of the year?

Caveat - I am not a teacher. Teachers do not work 6 hour days! They are a lot longer. I do wonder if people stopped saying your job is so cushy then teachers might stop with the my job is hardest - but it is probably chicken & egg.
I envy the long holidays & no big back log of emails etc on return (I'm assuming) but I also wouldn't want to deal with a classfull of 30 kids day in and day out.