To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

You are bored and taking the piss right ?

I don't think it's OK to chase pigeons as suggested upthread. No animal should be teased.

OP, aren't you shocked that your SIL and the other adults lied, got the children into trouble with an angry adult and caused all that distress?
That the children now know that to avoid getting themselves into trouble, the aduls will hang their own children out to dry?

PrettyFeet - I'd quit while you are not ahead.

The kids could have caused the death of both sheep and lambs.

And if the dad had kicked the dog the farmer would have been justified in lamping the stupid dad too.

Prettyfeet breeding ewes but will be humanely slaughtered once their reproductive lives finish or they become sick, often only after a number of years. If you think the fact that they will eventually be humanely slaughtered justifies them being stressed, chased and potentially experiencing abortion then your idea of ethics is a strange one. So you don't agree with humane slaughter but you don't object to children harrassing and terrifying animals. Odd.

Well OP your SIL and friends are as thick as shit.

Oh dear OP. I agree with the poster up thread who said in future, make sure your kids are on a lead.

The whole lot of you, kids included, sound absolutely odious.

You were lucky there were no rams in the field.

Yes, you certainly are. Rams can get very aggressive. A local chap in my area got attacked by a ram. It speared his hip with a horn and his pelvis became infected and disintegrated. He now cannot walk.

I also think the farmer could have got her point across without yelling and swearing, or at least directed this at the adults rather than a bunch of terrified under-10s who didn't realise they were doing something wrong.

This is very naive. I am sorry but it is. Those children and their parents created a situation that could have got very out of hand very quickly, and resulted in dead sheep and possibly injured children. Panicking sheep are not rational creatures; even when not in lamb, they can kill themselves or become seriously injured in their attempts to escape.

That the children did not realise they were doing something wrong? Well, do they chase people's dogs and cats? Do they behave like that when they visit a zoo?

It is a pretty good job they were sheep and not cows. One of those children could have ended up dead if they had done the same thing in a field of cattle.

Laurie, I agree they were wrong to chase the sheep and the parents were wrong to let them. I'll have a chat with SIL and point out sheep could have been pregnant etc and that she needs to stop them next time. I also think the children would have ignored me if I'd told them to stop, since their parents were saying it was ok.

But I still think farmer should have addressed adults not children, avoided swearing and been a bit more civil. The dad was fuming all way home about her attitude, I don't see how it improves understanding between farmers/walkers if they behave in such intimidating manner. A polite notice on the gate would have been more effective than a verbal attack that left parents resentful and angry.

If field has a right of way through it, isn't it also the farmer's responsibility to keep sheep away from public or put a sign up asking not to approach them? I appreciate people SHOULD know not to leave footpath but I imagine it happens quite a lot, even if kids just want to stroke a sheep. In Cumbria (where SIL grew up) the mountain sheep are quite friendly and don't run away if approached. They're used to tourists taking photos with them and often lie down in the middle of country roads.

As for the dog, if it had made to attack one of the children I think the dad would have been within his rights to kick it.

A moot point, as the dog did no such thing. In fact, it was behaving better than any of the people in your party.

However, using your logic, the farmer would have been within her rights to kick the children who were putting the sheep in great danger. Does that seem reasonable to you?

the dog was growling for a simple reason - it knew that the children were putting the sheep in danger and it was trying to protect them. It's only because the dog was so well trained that it did not bite. But don't kid yourself for a moment that if the farmer had given the dog a command it would not have obeyed instantly. however, she had enough restraint not to do anything rash. I bet she was tempted though.

Why shouldn't she shout and swear? your party were behaving outrageously. As for the children being "terrified" - well maybe they can relate to how those sheep were feeling. And if they live in the country and go to school there, then there is absolutely no way they did not know that what they were doing was 100% wrong.

It's the righteous ones on here that make me laugh the most. They love all gods creatures then spit venom from their mouths

the only animals that you can chase are pigeons

I take exception to this, Enderwoman. Why fgs do you think it is acceptable to chase pigeons?

"Civility" is not the issue when your family are threatening a farmer's entire livelihood. You all ought to know better and you need to stop justifying your family's terrible, terrible behaviour.

What are you babbling on about Prettyfeet?
Are you about to start quoting Scripture?

'But I still think farmer should have addressed adults not children, avoided swearing and been a bit more civil. '

Why? Why should she? The children were the ones causing the problem, and they needed to be stopped. Which she did.

They're lucky they weren't on our land or near our sheep. Most of our ewes are ready to lamb and if my DH or I had caught anyone chasing them they'd have heard our wrath. How bloody dare they think it's ok to let their children chase our animals. It's not only cruel but bloody dangerous. Sheepdogs herd, and they circle a lot. If you were near they're flock they will protect them.

I've only read the OP and the post above. The post above mentions someone theatening to kick a dog. If anyone had threatened to kick OUR dogs on OUR land after chasing OUR sheep then they probably wouldn't be left standing. OP you were all in the wrong letting children chase sheep then be annoyed at the farmer. I'm surprised any adult could be so stupid to allow children to chase animals in the first place for fun. Show your stupid SIL this thread. Maybe then she'll realise she's NOT entitled to allow her little cherubs the 'fun' of chasing innocent animals.

OP - is it a shopkeeper's job to put up signs asking children not to steal? Is it a car owner's job to educate people not to joyride? No its isn't. Similar it is not the farmer's job to take time out from her day to 'nicely' educate you and your friends on the law regarding criminal damage and tresspass. For goodness sake educate yourself - its embarrassing.

I'm pretty sure she was irrationally angry at your selfish stupidity than considering the most effective way to engage with the people tresspassing on her land and worrying her livestock.

You all behaved like a bunch of idiots and the farmers reaction is understandable.

Oh come on op, give your head a wobble. The kids had a justifiable bollocking which I'm sure they will get over. They certainly won't chase sheep again.

It's going to be one of those threads. Am I being unreasonable? Yes! No I'm not!

"Avoiding swearing and been a bit more civil"

A bit of swearing, growling by a dog and being yelled at by a woman who needed to stop you losing her livelihood is utterly irrelevant.

I just can't bring myself to care about your friends and children. At all. Their behaviour is so utterly abhorrent I think they deserve to feel really fucking bad.

I think they deserve to get yelled at and sworn at.

I've literally never said that but a bloody good telling off is what was necessary.

They've all learnt a lesson, well the children have: they've learnt not to do it and that their parents are liars and will pass the buck onto them.

I suspect the parents are stupidly oblivious and spent the next half an hour bitching about 'how dare that farmer' rather then consider what they could have done and be preparing an apology.

Have just read through the thread, and agree absolutely that farmer was quite right, OP's party were quite wrong (particularly the adults - they should be teaching the children how to behave properly whilst in the countryside).

PrettyFeet being an atheist, I personally don't believe any creature belongs to 'God'. It does deserve a happy and comfortable life, whatever is in store for it at the end of it's life. And I have not spotted one ounce of venom. I just think you are a goady poster, simply trying to go out of your way to be annoying.

I assume you see a pattern emerging from the posts? The arrogance, ignorance and simple stupidity shown by all the adults in your party is staggering.

How can any of you think teasing and frightening animals is not doing any harm? There may not have been any visible injuries but the stress and exhaustion the supervised children caused could have serious consequences. If pregnant, the ewes could abort (anything up to 3 days later) and even if not pregnant it is not uncommon for sheep to die following stressful incidents like this.

You lost your temper at a farmer protecting animals in her care and you wonder who is being unreasonable? Her dog was more under control than any individual in your group. She could have got her point across without swearing? Considering you could have been destroying her livelihood and causing distress to animals she cares about I think she was being remarkably restrained.

Have all the children been educated about the errors of their ways, or have they been lied to/about again?

This is such a typical AIBU.

Yes YABU say dozens of posters.

Yeah but...it's just not fair, it was her fault too, she was soooo vewwy wooood to the children and that's not right and she had a dog and everyfink...

YASBU

But, but...

"farmer should have addressed adults not children"

But the adults had assured her that they had repeatedly told the children not to chase the sheep but that the children were wilfully disobedient and deliberately ignored all the instructions they were given.

If the adults had said "Yeah, we basically expect them to do that because we told them it was OK..." then I suspect she'd have "addressed" the adults at some length instead.

And if "addressing" the children has gone some way to redressing the ridiculous do-whatever-you-like mindset instilled in them by their parents then it's probably been for the best in the long run.