To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

I've walked through a few fields like that, VivaLaBeaver and I did think some poor landowner must have been bloody fed up to the back teeth of stupid people who don't know the basics of how to walk concessionary footpaths

Ditto. I understand why farmers do it. Some people are just ignorant arses.

I used to work/live on a farm where the farmer was sick to the back teeth of such stuff. When ramblers came through he used to run for the bullocks in the barn and stampede them down the narrow track where the ramblers had just started down. Can't say I approved but he was desperate and hoping people would be put off walking that path.

He also had problems with a local dog worrying sheep. He didn't have time to lie in wait and shoot it so he put poisoned meat down. Dog came back, ate the meat and died. Farmer was prosecuted successfully.

Farmers have no rights to block or impede public rights of way I thought,,because they're,erm public.
While I understand the issues,I thought public rights of way can be ancient rights,and a landowner knows they are there when they purchase the land.
I'm quite willing to stand corrected on this one though,and learn if I'm incorrect.Its a really interesting subject I think.

Do you have pets OP? Pets that belong to you? Or lets say your utterly idiotic friends.

As a PP said, how would you feel if someone came into your/their garden or maybe while out walking them, and started chasing/haranguing them?

Regardless of how ignorant your 'friends' are of the Countryside Code, why on earth wouldn't so-called intelligent people realise the animals belong to someone. Rather a long time since we've had wild sheep thronging the hills.

Your pointless self-justification just makes this so much worse.

Would the farmer be allowed to fence the path off to protect his animals and to make sure that walkers stick to the path?

It's open to interpretation, ThatBloodyWoman. Cows are peaceable animals, mostly, and there are no rules about placing them in fields adjoining footpaths. Young bullocks are feisty, inquisitive and will crowd (usually just to see if you're The Human come to feed them). They can get boisterous and hate dogs. Some farmers who don't want people to use the public footpaths will take advantage of that.
Not a problem in Cumbria ime, but other places I've found frequently blocked by strategic large livestock.

"I am genuinely curious as to why no-one is able to answer my 2 main points, about steps farmers could take to reduce risk of this happening again."

I did answer this in an earlier post, Firethorn. Farmers do not have the time, the energy or the resources to put up signs everywhere. They already work bloody hard, outdoors whatever the weather, for very little return (often selling their animals, milk or crops at a loss), working long, long hours already.

I do remember as a teenager with my friends perfectly peaceably and country law abidingly,walking through a field we suddenly realised there was a bull in.We looked at each other and all scattered to various fences in complete panic

I don't mind admitting to being scared of cows.They are scary tramply creatures with a hive mind

ThatBloodyWoman, I agree those representing 'country-folk' are not setting a good example on here. Apparently it's ok to set your dog on ramblers if they stray from path, use dog to chase people off land, encourage bullocks to stampede down footpaths to deter people, poison other people's dogs, keep aggressive rams in fields with public rights of way, shout abuse at 'townies' who don't know the rules, threaten, intimidate, bully and swear at townies (whilst encouraging dog to circle them and maybe waving your gun around for good measure). How civilised and effective! Yet putting up signs to inform walkers your sheep are pregnant (and at risk of miscarriage if stressed) is dismissed because why should the farmer pay for a sign? Much easier to ridicule the newcomer for not knowing sheep were pregnant! Children chasing sheep is cruel, aggressive, destructive but the farmer can behave however he likes because he was there first or 'just protecting his income?' Chasing sheep is not on because it could cost him money, but it's ok to chase humans? Hunting, fishing, shooting are ok and not 'cruel' but some kids pretending to be sheepdogs in a field is a major crime? Hmmmmm.
I wonder why farmers have such a bad reputation!

You keep going on about missing a learning opportunity, and shouting not being effective, OP.

So I have two questions:

1. Do you think these children are likely to chase sheep again, after being scared by the shouty farmer?

2. Are these adults likely to let their children chase sheep again, after being shouted at by the farmer?

No?

Job done.

Not ideal to learn this way, rather than the adults applying common sense. But I bet they've all learned it good and proper. And will think twice about all farming encounters, not decide that oh cows are different to sheep so chasing cows is OK...

Patrick - yes farmers can fence the path but it is expensive and not always feasible. My father had to go to court to get permission to reroute a footpath round the edge of a field rather than straight across the middle of it where people trampled a huge amount of his crops.

He also had to put up a special gate to stop people riding ponies on another footpath on his land - because local riding schools were selling riding holidays using his land to make money illegally. Ponies are not supposed to go on footpaths only bridleways. Hundreds of pony riders churned up the footpath and cut a swathe 5m wide.

Apparently it's ok to set your dog on ramblers if they stray from path

You've made rather a large leap there haven't you, a bloody dangerous one at that. Stick to what happened

Would the farmer be allowed to fence the path off to protect his animals and to make sure that walkers stick to the path?

yes but it is generally bloody inconvenient and expensive. I have a meadow which the sheep are put in for lambing and during the worst of the winter, through the middle of this runs my drive/farm track but it is also the route of a public footpath. I have had people driving their cars on and parking up for a picnic on the grass, playing ball games etc etc bbq's so the drive is now fenced in, it's a nuisance because it means I need to round up the sheep and move them from one side to the other as needed rather than them just having use of the whole area.

You're not here to genuinely canvass opinion, OP, I don't know what your motive is, but you are just being obtuse and refusing to understand what people are saying. It really isn't worth bothering to answer you - other than for the reason that what you and your friends did was wrong on every level.

Why dont you go to a safari park this weekend - take the kids, why don't you, and let them chase the animals there with their sticks. Then you can come back and complain that the lions were unreasonable for mauling devouring your sweet little relatives.

ThatBloodyWoman - cows with calves are definitely lethal. Stay out of the field and definitely don't go in it with a dog. They will attack.

On the other hand milk cows without calves and bullocks are very likely to amble up to you, give you a good looking at and then the bravest will proceed to lick you quite unexpectedly.

You will stay licked for quite some time but suffer no real harm.

When I've been walking on fields I have seen people having picnics, flying kites and even having a BBQ on farmers land.

Dog walkers where I live use the farmers land full of crops to walk their dogs.its full of dog shit. The farmer kicks off but nobody takes any notice.

It's not even got a right of way over it!

We live in a fairly rural area and I grew up on and around farms, so I'm probably biased, but I'd go bezerk if I saw my children even attempting to behave that way towards any animal let alone ones which didn't belong to me. Of course the farmer was cross. Admittedly nobody should've sworn at the children, but your children had behaved atrociously and you'd all stood there allowing it to happen. Your SIL is spot-on; the only course of action was a grovelling apology and a bollocking for the children and adults.

As for parents who say "we were shouting at them to stop and they didn't listen" they deserve a smacked arse. You're a bloody parent, you wet lettuce.

I am genuinely curious as to why no-one is able to answer my 2 main points, about steps that farmers could take to reduce risk of this happening again.

Farmers shouldn't need to take any steps. Your friends children and niece went to to THEIR land to chase sheep. How hard is it understand that you and friends should have stuck to the path? Farms shouldn't need to reduce risk of your fuckwit SIL and children chasing sheep. FFS it's not rocket science. As I said last night we have hundreds of gates. I'm not going to wast time putting signs up when people should know NOT TO ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO CHASE ANIMALS As others have said read the Countryside Code and stop asking fucking stupid, repetitive questions that others have already answered.

We often have people walk on our land. I've lived on farms all my life and have never come across idiots chasing livestock. In fact, we often come across people with children when out checking livestock or when I'm bringing my horses in. All the children want to do is stroke a horse/pet the dog/see the lambs and I'm happy to oblige. Especially in spring we have families with children watch us bring sheep in with lambs and they are often invited to the farm. Children love to see newborn lambs and feed the orphaned ones. It's our daily life but it's lovely to see the kids faces being up close and being able to feed a lamb as it's all new to them. Would. I welcome children that have chased out livestock though? No, not a chance.

ItsAll thank you.I see exactly where you're coming from.
Apart from the cows being peaceable animals,that is.Because its quite obvious to me that they are dangerous and malevolent....

Fire thorn you are exaggerating now. You weren't chased.

I shall write this as simply as I can. A public right of way on a footpath means that you can use the footpath to get from A to B on foot. In your case it gives you the right to cross a field. It does not give you the right to stray from the footpath and harrass livestock.

To put it another way it is the equivalent of having a footpath that runs at the bottom of your garden and a family walking past let the children wander into your garden and pick all the flowers because they wanted to rearrange them like the Chelsea flower show because they saw it on the TV.

MoreBeta I'm not falling for that

OP, do you have problems with comprehension?
It has. Been explained that as those kids posed a danger to the sheep the fog was ensuring they did not venture near them again.
The dog realised what a group of adults did not. That says it all, when a dog is more intelligent than for adults put together.

Regardless of whether she owned or rented the land, the field we were crossing had a public right of way (marked with yellow arrows) through the centre. How is that trespassing?
Unless your nieces and nephews were herding the sheep in an orerly line down the right of way then they were trespassing, by not sticking to the path. It's breathtaking arrogance, Rights of Way extend down people's driveways near me - would you allow your kids to run all over these peoples gardens?
You have RoW to cross the field not to run all over it.
And no, YANBU to think Parents should take responsibility or failing that, any other responsible adult.
All the fields round us have signs but TBH if the people out walking near you can't even stick to the path why should the farmer even think they'll be read?!