To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

It also surprises me how many adults (also often countryfolks) think its ok to bash through undergrowth,shouting,and bashing about with sticks,terrifying pheasants into flight...

Tbh i doubt any of your group wanted to educated. Better to just do what you want and kick off if someone objects hey?

Firethorn you are right education is needed but the education is not the responsibility of the farmer it is up to parents to educate children about common respect and decency and all the things you mention boil down to that.

'What is the point of posting here if you won't listen to any of the huge number of posters who have tried to point out that you are wrong and why you are wrong?!'

I am listening to those posters. However I am genuinely curious as to why no-one is able to answer my 2 main points, about steps that farmers could take to reduce risk of this happening again.
As for children chasing sheep, I have said numerous times this is wrong and I am against it, but everyone seems to fixate on the 'chasing sheep' situation rather than looking at bigger picture.

Education is far more useful - at last you hae said something that makes sense, OP.

Yes, education is useful. Very useful. As is common sense.

I suggest you and your friends go and acquire some, particularly in general knowledge - you know, things like lambs being born in the spring, a signposted right of way meaning you stick to the clearly marked path and do not harass animals.

The farmer is not responsible for your stupidity, nor should this put an extra onus upon the farmer to educate, pay for signs to be made and then put them up etc. It's her land - you need to respect that and behave like decent people not hooligans.

Mmmmm.
More I think about it,more I think a section of countryfolks aren't setting the best examples.

Because, OP, all the posters have told you that it is your responsibility to inform and educate yourselves, and not the farmer's to do it for you. This is as simply put as it can possibly be.

Do not put yourselves in situations where you do not know how to behave appropriately.

Just trying to imagine the possibly lesson planning by the farmer.
Aims and objectives?
WILF./WALT
Differentiated learning?
Plenary?

Oh, fuck it, just get Rover to give them a real learning experience. :o

Firethorn when you are walking around town, in your local area etc would you walk across peoples gardens or do you stick to paths? Keeping to paths is common knowledge why do you suddenly think it doesn't apply in the countryside?

I am genuinely curious as to why no-one is able to answer my 2 main points, about steps that farmers could take to reduce risk of this happening again.

numerous people have told you that it is up to you, the people walking across the fields, to assume responsibility for your actions and to reduce any risks. It is not the farmer's job to do this, it is yours if you wish to access her fields.

You've also been told that it is highly unusual to be so ignorant as regards lambs being born in the spring. and the consequences of your actions. therefore your points seem merely like attempts at deflection from the issue, which is your unjustifiable outrage at the farmers very normal response to a real threat to her flock and livelihood by the selfish actions of a group of numpties.

When you go somewhere you know nothing about, like the countryside, it is your responsibility to educate yourself. You are responsible for your actions. Not the farmer, although she will have to pay the consequences.

Steps they could take?

Shut off all footpaths where livestock were at risk of the casual asshat wandering through Or fence said footpaths off with barbed wire either side.

I still remember,years ago,a huntswoman with the Quantock Staghunt,proclaiming on tv that the stags rather enjoyed the chase....
She didn't look like your average townie.

Firethorn Working sheepdogs are never on a lead because they are usually well trained. Rogue dogs sometimes go out worrying sheep but they are usually got rid of. I grew up on a farm and I have never heard of a sheep dog biting a human. They are trained to round up sheep not to attack at all. They are working animals which are usually much loved members of the family. Nothing happened apart from these silly children getting a bit of a fright. I would never walk through someone else's field unless the farmer was showing me their sheep. Farmers are having a hard enough job at the moment making ends meet without dealing with this kind of shit.
I don't know what you are getting out of this thread- notoriety??? You have heard the same message from other farming people and refuse to listen.

However, I'm interested in why so many posters feel 'townies' should have in-depth knowledge of sheep farming, simply because they use a public right of way

I don't think that anyone's expecting townies to have an in-depth knowledge of sheep farming. We are all expecting that anyone and everyone knows IT IS NOT OK to chase animals in a field, even if stupid parents call it 'playing.'

The bigger picture? That is the picture! You seem to want us to ignore the fact you were in the wrong and instead berate the farmer for doing what the majority of us would have done in her shoes anyway.

God these threads annoy me. Why ask for opinions if you're just going to argue with them anyway.

My father was a farmer and saw a man in his field with his dog off the lead. It was chasing my father's sheep. My father told him that he would shoot the dog on sight if he ever allowed it to chase his sheep again and he meant it. The man got very angry threatening my father with the law etc. The man was completely in the wrong.

People like your SIL are the very reason so many farmers hate having footpaths on their land. People simply treat the countryside like a theme park.

Dh owns own a field with a public right of way through it. There are horses rather than sheep in the field. Due to the arseholes walking through this field with off lead dogs who seem to think it's fine to firstly let their dogs bother the ponies and secondly shit all over the place we've had to fence the path in on both sides.

Which is a pita because it cost a lot of money, it's made one big field two fields. So the horses can only access half the land at a time and have to be rotated between the two sides which is time and effort. I'm sure plenty of walkers are pissed off about having a 90cm wide path which looks like a concentration camp to walk along rather than a nice field.

'And do people really think shouting abuse, swearing, behaving aggressively and using a dog to intimidate children will help solve this problem??'

What do you think the children are likely to do next time they are walking on a footpath through a field of sheep?

ThatBloodyWoman

Here's a solution: environmental police that have the power to arrest anyone causing harm to wildlife and livestock.

Would that be a good solution?

The parents would have been arrested by a beefcake police officer. "I didn't know you weren't supposed to chase animals" wouldn't have been much of a defence I'll bet

So how many signs would you like putting up? Where? Every gate? There's a lot of them, the countryside's a big place.

So how long is that going to take the farmer? And cost them? They'd need to be pretty solid signs to withstand the weather, if they use paper they'd have to keep replacing them. Taking up even more time.

So who's going to spend the time and money doing that?

I've walked through a few fields like that, VivaLaBeaver and I did think some poor landowner must have been bloody fed up to the back teeth of stupid people who don't know the basics of how to walk concessionary footpaths.

I can see why some farmers round here put bullocks in fields to make them impassable for walkers, especially those with dogs.

OP to answer your main point - the farmer is limited to what she can do about your party's ignorance and complete disregard for her land, livestock & livelihood. Aside from putting up signs to warn you not to chase & harass pregnant sheep - I'd suspect the farmer would have more luck teaching the sheep to read signs telling them to stay clear of idiots. The fault is entirely with you & the people you were with.

I know!

Make listening to The Archers compulsory

(Maybe the OP is a producer or scriptwriter looking for ideas?)

So, all that marketing around Easter being little newborn lambs and chicks didn't make you add 1 and 1 together?
You have never bought spring lamb?
You have never been to school?
Never read a book?
Never seen anything on the news about lambing?
Never seen countryfile or any programme on lambs?