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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think £2 an hour isn't good enough?

62 replies

UghReally · 25/03/2015 13:26

Year 21 and over 18 to 20 Under 18 Apprentice*
2014 (current rate) £6.50 £5.13 £3.79 £2.73
2013 £6.31 £5.03 £3.72 £2.68
2012 £6.19 £4.98 £3.68 £2.65
2011 £6.08 £4.98 £3.68 £2.60
2010 £5.93 £4.92 £3.64 £2.50

These are the minimum wage rates, they are quite shoddy at best and its crap that people have to try to live on that. But look at apprentice minimum wage, I had no idea this was even allowed!
AIBU to think its wrong to pay someone 2.73 an hour?

OP posts:
Original poster
UghReally · 25/03/2015 13:26

sorry if unclear, its copy and pasted

OP posts:
Discounted · 25/03/2015 13:29

I don't think the apprenticeship rate is a problem at all actually. They're not working they're training. Most training is unpaid and costs the trainee.

Minimum wage for a fully working adult, over 21 does need increasing IMO, but there are lots of arguments both ways on that.

HighwayDragon · 25/03/2015 13:30

You're usually an apprentice learning a trade, you're learning rather than working and shadowing someone on the job.

HighwayDragon · 25/03/2015 13:31

They're increasing minimum wage aren't they? I do think it should be for over 18s, rather than 21

whatsthatcomingoverthehill · 25/03/2015 13:31

I wish someone had paid me to go to university.

Original poster
UghReally · 25/03/2015 13:33

I'm aware that normally apprentices are working toward a qualification of some kind but if they put 40 hours a week into doing so are they still not entitled to a living wage?

OP posts:
Pyjamasandwine · 25/03/2015 13:33

No I don't.

As a student nurse in the 80s we earned similar and had a warm lovely nursing home to live in at minimal rent with no bills. Just food.

We learnt on the job without the need for a huge uni loan and of course learned the craft they is nursing properly. Times have changed.Sad

I think most apprentices live at home and it's great they companies are seeing the benefits or training youngsters and it's a fantastic opportunity for the kids.

When my dh left school in the early 80s companies like BT took on 400 trainees just in the birminghsm area.

Far better than our stupid obsession with all kids going to uni and amassing huge debts with dubious courses.

We need to expand the apprentice scheme.

Most kids that age are then paying a bit to parents, earning enough to go out and about and learning a skill.

OddBoots · 25/03/2015 13:35

It is certainly very favourable compared to university and many intern placements.

Some apprentices are taken advantage of and given work beyond what is reasonable but that is a separate matter - for apprentices in most places it is a very good rate given everything else they get in terms of training.

SisterMoonshine · 25/03/2015 13:42

Am I right that the parents lose the child benefit too?

Phephenson · 25/03/2015 13:45

It's £2.73 an hour for the first year but if you are 19 or over when you start you will get the NMW for the 2nd and 3rd year.

If you are under 19 when you start then it's £2.73 an hour for the duration of the apprenticeship regardless of if you turn 19 during the course of it.

In theory most apprenticeships are open to all age groups but if you were an employer then the likelihood is that you will plump for the cheapest option - an under 19 year old.

It's not the greatest system as it leaves youngsters still reliant on their parents as they cannot afford rent, transport and food on £110 a week!

However, it's cheaper than sending them to uni and them and you amassing that kind of student debt.

SisterMoonshine · 25/03/2015 13:46

yanbu btw.
What about transport costs etc?

pollyenta · 25/03/2015 13:50

YABU

It's not meant to be a living wage. You don't get paid a proper wage to go to college or university and train for jobs that way.

googoodolly · 25/03/2015 13:50

YANBU. I don't know why people think it's okay for people to earn such a pittance when they're working 40 hours a week.

If you're working, you should get minimum wage, apprentice or not, you're working! Why shouldn't you get paid accordingly? It's not like you can do your apprenticeship 9-5 and get a full-time job on top of that Hmm

googoodolly · 25/03/2015 13:51

No, you don't get paid for going to uni/college because it's not a job, it's education! Apprenticeships are a form of work, so people should get paid for it.

Discounted · 25/03/2015 13:52

Pollyenta's right, it's not meant to be a living wage but some pocket money while you train. Of course they're still dependant on parents, the vast majority are under 18. Surely no-one goes into parenting thinking their DC will be fully independent by 16.

Mamus · 25/03/2015 13:53

Apprentices definitely work. It's work based learning, nothing like sitting in class. YANBU at all.

Hobby2014 · 25/03/2015 13:53

YANBU because superdrug is offering apprenticeships. That doesn't need years of training, unlike a trade.
More businesses are going to clock onto this and introduce it.

googoodolly · 25/03/2015 13:54

Lots are 18 or above, though. And there's still a minimum wage for U18's and this still falls below that.

YouMeddlingKids · 25/03/2015 13:54

I don't think apprentices are necessarily working 40 hour weeks. For one thing they normally have a day or two in college, and also a lot of what they do will be shadowing others or working at a much slower rate than someone trained (and with someone having to use their time to supervise). If all of that still counts as working for a full wage, then why shouldn't students get paid a wage too? After all, academic work is still work too!

TheImprobableGirl · 25/03/2015 13:55

Yanbu- i completed an NHS apprenticeship when I had just turned 24 (the last year it I allowed) and earnt £100 per week.

It wasn't enough to live on and as I have dd, I was heavily subsidised by tax credits.

It was a rough year, but I managed to get my nvq and have now completed my third year in a properly paid NHS role. It did encourage a lot of apprentices to apply for other jobs sooner than the year was up, as they could still carry on their nvq while doing this

AuntieDee · 25/03/2015 13:56

OP - if they were paid a living wage they would need to pay for their training. Most apprentices are still living at home so don't actually need a living wage as such.

I was an apprentice in the sciences. I earned a nominal amount (but still enough to fund a car) and got my degree and state registration all paid for. I finished uni (done on day release over 4 years) and had no debt whatsoever. It was absolutely the best way to start my career. Not only did I get my expensive degree paid for, I got 5 years of invaluable experience that gave me opportunities above that of my peers who went to uni full time.

Apprenticeships aren't about a 'wage' it is about a token amount, whilst still training. You aren't a counted employee - you are supernumary so a genuine trainee

Discounted · 25/03/2015 13:56

Hobby2014, I agree there are (probably) employers who take advantage of the system and some apprenticeships that aren't worthy of the name, but that's a separate issue. For a genuine apprenticeship offering proper training and qualifications, the pay is fine IMO.

TracyBarlow · 25/03/2015 13:57

My husband has an apprentice. He is a very skilled craftsman / sole trader doing very specialist work. His apprentice doesn't do work as such, he just watches and learns and gets to have the odd go under strict supervision. There's no way my husband could pay him a full wage for this and he doesn't actually need an employee. He wishes he could pay him more and he employs him, separately, on a Saturday morning, to clean the workshop up with him. If he wanted to exploit him he could just get him to clean the workshop during the week.

The apprentice still lives with his parents and couldn't do it if he didn't. The system is not flawless though, and. Font think people should be taking on apprentices for things that don't need a long period of intense, on-the-job training.

TracyBarlow · 25/03/2015 13:57

*and I don't think

StellaAlpina · 25/03/2015 13:59

I'm in two minds about this.
A lot of university courses also include placements where you are working 40hour weeks and doing coursework on top of it, but then again at uni you usually have a student loans and many people get bursaries as well...

I think the minimum wage should be the same for over 18s and over 21s though, and higher than it is now.