AIBU to think £2 an hour isn't good enough?

[UghReally]

Year 21 and over 18 to 20 Under 18 Apprentice*
2014 (current rate) £6.50 £5.13 £3.79 £2.73
2013 £6.31 £5.03 £3.72 £2.68
2012 £6.19 £4.98 £3.68 £2.65
2011 £6.08 £4.98 £3.68 £2.60
2010 £5.93 £4.92 £3.64 £2.50

These are the minimum wage rates, they are quite shoddy at best and its crap that people have to try to live on that. But look at apprentice minimum wage, I had no idea this was even allowed!
AIBU to think its wrong to pay someone 2.73 an hour?

Completely agree.

University isn't a job and it's not training for one either.

It limits apprenticeships to those families that can afford them. For those that can't, there is no opportunity and children from such a family have to take a min wage job somewhere.

Apprentices gain knowledge/skills/experience but they also enable their employer to get the job done and often fulfil a vital role within the business.

I started an apprenticeship when I was 24. It was a year long apprenticeship doing business admin in an office. I'd wanted a monday to Friday 9-5 job since I'd left school but due to poor life choices I ended up in retail which I hated. I was in the fortunate position where me and dp were living in a very cheap house and he could afford the majority of bills. We weren't well off but we weren't struggling either. 6 months after end of apprenticeship, I'm with the same company but in that time I have been a junior and am now about to become a website editor. The apprenticeship was the the best thing to happen to me. The wages weren't perfect, but the company were paying for me to get an NVQ

I agree with TracyBarlow, there seem to be tonnes of apprenticeships nowadays that really don't require three years training (retails is a prime example)- in those situations that seems like cheap labour. For an apprentice learning a skilled trade from a sole trader though it is absolutely is fair.

Should just add though that some national apprenticeships (national grid, water companies, utilities, some car production companies) often offer an apprenticeship package that is far above the apprenticeship NMW and in some cases matches the normal MW.

Also, I agree apprenticeships in retail are a fucking awful idea

If you are 16, you will be competing for jobs with someone who is 18. Assuming you don't have a particularly outstanding personality/attitude that shines through at interview (most people don't), why else would you give a job to someone with no experience who is 16, rather than someone with no experience who is 18?

And looking on later down the line, an 18 year old with 2 years work experience and no qualifications stands a decent chance of getting a job against an 18 year old with qualifications but no experience. But if you are 18 without experienced or qualifications, your chances start to look worse and worse as each year passes while you stay like that.

I can understand the logic in regards to carpentry and the like but apprentices in mcdonalds and primark dont really need to take 3 years to learn how to do their job

Apprentices are students, it's meant to be a tiny stipend rather than a wage in return for services they are providing.

I don't have children yet so I don't know but I thought that you had to be in some form of education or training until 18 now?

Someone working in Primark or Maccas isn't an apprentice in the true sense of the word. An apprentice is apprenticed to a master and learns all about a craft or trade from them. Working in a shop isn't a 'trade' as such.

YABU. Because they're actually getting £2.73 + knowledge + experience. Most people who are learning, even if they do placements and learn on the job, don't get an hourly rate at all.

Depends if the McDonald's or primark examples are management training. Sainsburys used to do something similar I think, it was the management fast track program and whilst you stacked shelves and worked checkouts like everyone else you also got on the job training and NVQ qualifications. I think pay was a bit better but I wanted my degree so I never looked into it properly.

In the hotel my daughter worked in as a housekeeper on NMW they had two housekeeping apprentices on these wages. The "training" was one day with another housekeeper and then the apprentices were expected to do 40 hours on their own cleaning rooms. This hotel wanted 60 apprentices a year and called themselves an academy with a big press release to do the gardening, cooking, waiters, cleaning, office etc, etc. For them they were just cheap labour and had nothing apart from experience to show for it after the year.

The housekeeping apprentices left after about 6 months

www.miskin-manor.co.uk/8-news-events/32-local-hotel-works-to-tackle-youth-unemployment

From reading a bit of Dickens in ye olde times apprentices had to pay for the privilege of learning their trade...

I was being slightly facetious with my comment above. In principle though I think the balance currently is about right - it offers some salary but is a reflection that they are receiving training to enable development of a career long term.

And yes it is slightly galling when people going to university have to stump up £27k before living costs. But then I do think we would be better to have more apprenticeships, particularly of a technical nature, and in lots of cases they would be more valuable (to the individual and overall economy) than a degree.

Apprenticeships are an excellent way of learning, and the sooner they are brought back into the mainstream the better.
Compare the outlook of someone coming out of uni with an unmarketable degree and a huge debt, with his/her school friend who has completed an apprenticeship, begun a career and no debt.
Being paid to learn, even a small amount, is a great privilege.

I got £1 an hour in my hairdressing apprenticeship about 12 years ago. It's was crap but I was 16 and just happy to have my own money and to be learning a career.

My neighbour is a joiner and has been mulling over taking on an apprentice. Unfortunately, his take on the system is that it means he has to pay someone that can't actually do much work because they aren't yet trained, and anything they do do, he has to observe -- so where is the benefit for him? In short, it will cost him to teach someone and, when they are trained up, they might not necessarily stay working for him anyway.

A lot of fellow joiners, electricians, plumbers etc he knows just can't see the point in taking on an apprentice. Instead, if they need extra help, they just ask retired tradesmen if they want some work.

I think some establishments push the limits of apprenticeships. Our local chemist was advertising for one to retail work, not dispensing, I thought that was taking the piss abit. However, I do think that if they are truly learning a skill or a trade it is a good thing and £2:73 is fair. It's more than DS2 will get when he starts his nursing degree in September.

The armed forces are exempt from the minimum wage. We worked out DS1 has been earning about £3.03 an hour!

I agree, a retail apprenticeship is daft. You should be learning a skill or a trade to justify earning such a low wage whilst training

I work at McDonald's and was talking to one of my colleagues at the weekend, she's 17 and I'm late thirties.
She's paid almost £3 less an hour than me for doing the exact same job, we started on the same day.
I feel youngsters are often exploited, hardly anyone where I work (disregarding management) is over 21.
I remember working at a sausage factory during summer hols in sixth form for £2.50 an hour, 20 years ago! No wonder I'm vegetarian:)

YABU, it's a training allowance and far better compared to those who habe to pay to go through uni.

It's not meant to be a living wage, just like NMW isn't for many. A living wage to some is a flat share where to others its a large house in London with a whole brood of children.

There are some fantastic apprentiships around, training in a trade etc

But my friends daughter is an apprentice in a cafe, not management training or anything like that. She is a waitress

I can't help thinking that some of these apprenticeships are just a way of getting cheap labour

I live with medical students and they do 40 hour weeks in hospitals. And they're PAYING the university £9000 a year to do this.

I personally think "trainee doctors" should be paid, like apprentices!

As a physio student I did a whole 40 hour week plus study. Hell did I get paid? You are there to learn, that's why it's a training course.

It's not meant to be a living wage, just like NMW isn't for many.

NMW should be a living wage, though. It's ridiculous that an adult can work full-time and not be able to support themselves without government help.