to ask, what would you do if you caused a someone to die

[PoloAndBingo]

Long time lurker here.

I don't know if this sounds weird, but I live in fear of accidentally harming someone - knocking someone over in my car, DC having an accident on my watch etc, even serving up food that kills a guest (my cooking's not that bad, honest). I have some MH issues due to a series of traumatic events, so this is a bit of 'thing' for me, and I wonder if others ever feel the same? Is it normal in any way??

I know accidents happen. I look at parents who lose children in drowning accidents etc and I have nothing but sympathy and the feeling of 'there but for the grace of God'. Life is so fragile and there is no way of turning back the clock when terrible things happen - and we are all human and not programmed to never make errors of judgement. But how can something that happens in the blink of an eye ruin the rest of your life?

I've had some near misses - not seeing a car once as I crossed road, sleep deprived, with newborn DD, for example. I know even the very best parents, the very best. most alert and attentive people make fatal mistakes. But how do they go on? What would you do?

May post on MH board later as having a bit of an anxiety flare-up today, for no reason in particular

I think many people have fleeting thoughts like this, but if it causes anxiety then it is something you need to speak to your GP about as it can be a sign of OCD
It can get worse to the point it affects your daily life, so do get advice.

Yes I have these fears all the time especially when driving. I'm a good driver never had an accident never had a speeding ticket but yes I know how you feel.

I'm not sure if it's normal or not (whatever that word even means) but I do think as long as it's not debilitating I.e you can still go out, drive, cook for friends etc then it can be a good thing. It makes you a more risk aware person which is surely better than the alternative of not caring.

To answer your last question if I did have an accident and kill someone I honestly don't know how I could go on but I know I would have to. If only to find a way to make amends to the family.
I'm sorry your feeling like this, your definitely not alone but maybe someone on the MH board could help more

Hi OP, yes it would be absolutely dreadful if something terrible happened despite your very best attempts to prevent it.However it's statistically unlikely that you are going to cause a fatal accident of any type. You appear aware that anxiety is causing these concerns and I know that insight doesn't make this any less awful for you. Have you talked about these worries to your GP or a MH professional?

yes ive had those thoughts most recently my son had a double ear infection on sunday (out of hours visit and antibiotics) then the Monday he came out in chicken pox as i was sneaking him to the cash machine (so he didnt infect anyone) i was almost consumed by the black thought he was going to be hit by a car reversing out of their own driveway i made him walk by me but its not often i get like this only when we are having a hard time

chat to your GP you might need a bit of cognitive behavior therapy (i think thats what its called)

Tell the truth.

The worst possible outcome following a death is not allowing the families concerned of the dead or injured to be faced with lawyers prevarication, fabrication and lies.

Accidents happen. Fatal accidents happen and they can be caused by all of us and happen to any of us. Truth helps.

Op I hope you are able to live your life without this impacting on you to a very negative extent.

Most people have fleeting thoughts like this but if it causing you this distress it is not normal. Someone close to me suffered from these sort of thoughts as a sympton of her OCD. Do you have strategies, routines, rituals that you do when you have had these thouights to 'protect' against them actually coming true? If you do you should ask your GP about OCD, otherwise it may be a generalised anxiety which you are aware of I see.

Hello Polo,
I definitely know what you mean. We all have to negotiate risks every day and it would be completely irresponsible to never consider the possible dangerous conséquences of our actions. I agree with Gottage that if you feel that you are getting overly anxious then your GP can definitely help you.
Learning ways to relax and face life serenely like yoga and exercise could help you to not be anxious and to be able to cope less anxiously.
Take care :-)

I do have these thoughts, particularly when I'm stressed or run down. But I have read several accounts by people who have suffered terrible losses, and in a strange way it is reassuring to know that life can and does go on, and that hope, peace and even happiness can be found again. Even the agonising guilt of being responsible for a death is something that people can, eventually, come to terms with in some way.

Have you done any mindfulness practice? I am a novice at it, but one of the aspects of mindfulness I find particularly attractive is developing the habit of non-judgment, especially of yourself, and cultivating self empathy instead. So I wonder if mindfulness might help you to have these feelings more lightly, and put them aside more easily.

Yes it's a fear at the back of my mind. But it doesn't impact on how I live my life or my happiness. I'm a first aid instructor so I have heard too many horror stories about how people have got hurt. And my mother survived a 60mph motorway multi-car crash that was caused by a sudden hail storm. Bad things sometimes happen to vigilant, safety conscious people. That's life. Try not to let it get you down.

I once read of a woman who had these thoughts and it got to the point that she would keep driving back over her journey to check that she had not unknowlingly knocked someone over and had left them by the road. She would also keep checking anything else she did to make sure she had not unwittingly caused harm.
It can get worse and is anxiety related so it is always best to seek help.

This is helpful, thank you. I am quite interested in trying mindfulness and learning more about the idea that my thoughts aren't actually dangerous and can't hurt me, and that I don't need to get carried along by them. Just unsure if it will work.

I think I've been reeling since reading about children dying in cars, when their parents thought they had dropped them at nursery, but were instead left in hot car all day. There was an article about how this is actually a relatively easy mistake to make and had happened to a lot of vigilant, loving parents. It just scares me. That I could easily do that or something else.

It does impact on my life. I have thrown out decent leftover meals for DD because I've reheated and then let them slightly cool and can't fully remember if they were 100% scaldingly piping hot when they came out of microwave, even though I know I tested thoroughly at the time. I have rituals too - thought rituals rather than hand washing or anything.

gottaget I actually had something similar happen the other day when I heard a heavy clunk under my wheel and spent whole car journey wondering if it could have been a child, when in reality I think it was probably a road bump.

My son died after his dad didn't put his reins on and he walked into the road.

My Ex will never get over his guilt. He has suffered from severe depression ever since and has tried to take his own life on numerous occasions.

someone who doesn't know him well, would never see the shattered man he is.

His/our life will never be they same, although i definately cope better than he does

Sweetheart I think you need to see your GP.

I completely see your anxieties but your actions are becoming ott and I think you need to chat to someone about your anxieties.

Are your anxieties surrounding your children? Mine are too and I needed help
After dd was badly injured in an accident. It can become very debilitating this anxiety. It can affect the way you parent so please think about getting help.

Maybe post on the MH section and you will get so much help. Xx

MrsP thinking of you and your dh.

polo I am just the same. I don't know if it's normal or not...I know my fears got out of control about 12 years ago, and I was dx'd with OCD. I did CBT and now have a medium dose of fluoxetine (Prozac) daily. Both really help. If I am tired or run down then the thoughts are def. worse.

I stopped a lot of ordinary activities and started limiting my DC because of my fears. Eg not going to the park because we had to cross a road etc. I knew it was time to get some help. My GP was very sympathetic....I genuinely felt I was going mad with fears about all kinds of unlikely things. (I had a very traumatic childhood and I'm on 'high alert' all the time as a result).

If it's bothering you then def. see your GP. I would say mindfulness is great for when you are better, and helping you stay better, but you need a bit more than that to get you out of the rut of feeling this way.

My lovely DB was killed in a fatal car accident just over a year ago, at first my DM wanted someone to blame where as my DF kept more of a level head. By the time the inquest came my DM realised it was unavoidable at the time, a case of wrong place and wrong time. They made sure that the person who hit his car knew they didn't want him to blame himself, and certainly not to live his life full of guilt. I do often wonder how he managed to deal with it and hope over time any guilt has lessened.

I think if you are having these thoughts you should mention it to your GP. Accidents happen all the time, and having to live with it must be just as awful as the bereaved families. However talking and guidance may help with any anxiety issues you may have.

Mrs P that is heartbreaking for all of you and I'm so sorry. I hope this thread didn't trigger anything. What a terrible, terrible thing for you and your ex to go through. I hope he can find some peace over the course of his life, and you

Sorry, meant to say, of course, to the OP that that is so awful for you and your DH. There are counsellors who specialise in this kind of bereavement....have you been able to get really specialist support for your DH?

Thinking of you.

tired so very sorry about your brother

Yes. My anxieties revolve around driving and harming others when doing so. I live in constant fear of having an accident. Even when I'm driving on roads I know- I struggle to drive around where I grew up and where my parents still live because my brain goes into overdrive. I know all the places where people do crazy things.

I constantly worry that I have hit other cars and just not heard anything (when I haven't). I've imagined my wheel squeaking on a wet road was me running over a cat and was awake all night worrying.

I think that a particular strategy of dealing with it, a set of defined steps to divert your attention even for a short period of time, can help more significantly than you think. CBT - as far as I understand it - is all about these strategies. I've not done CBT myself but would be open to it, given opportunity, the challenge is to stick with it until you become comfortable with it (you won't be at the start of the course).

I also like this TED talk about emotional health:
Why we all need to practice emotional first aid - www.ted.com/talks/guy_winch_the_case_for_emotional_hygiene

Thank you Polo. I hope you manage to get help for the way you are feeling I really do .

I can identify too.

I am terrified that one of my children will choke, to the point where I am scared I am going to cause them issues with me banging on about choking when they eating, making sure they aren't messing about or making sure they chew properly etc. My 3 year old brother choked when I was 11 and it was horrible. Luckily my dad did get it up with back slaps but it was very scary.

My DS had a febrile convulsion when he was 18 months and got taken to hospital (I didn't know what it was at the time) and when I saw my nurse neighbour doing mouth to mouth I lost it and thought I was going to lose him for a split second.

I am terrified of roads. It doesn't affect my life but I hate crossing them and bang on about road safety to the DCs, DS is bored of it, but I got hit by a car age 9 so I am very paranoid. I don't like the DCs being ahead of me by a road or walking near the edge of the pavement.

I am afraid I am going to leave them with issues of all the things I am scared of.

I don't have rituals or anything so I can't say that it is OCD but I am constantly afraid I am going to lose them in some way and if it is something that is preventable then it's worse. I now keep thinking about twats that drive whilst on their mobiles, which I see a lot, and I am terrified that one of these wankers will crash into us whilst we are driving or mount the pavement whilst we are walking and injure the children. It was awful whilst the school were doing 'scooter to school' as DS was in his element and I was panicking the whole time about him falling into the road.

There are more but I am waffling on so won't go into it all but it's all centered around my children.

I think some of mine stems from being abandoned by my 'mother' when I was little and others are from experience. I tend to live with it because the way I see it, it isn't affecting my life by having restrictions or anything but I am concerned I can't be more relaxed with the DCs.

Have done, sort of.

Kept a client out of prison (am barrister) and then they were murdered in gang related incident.

But perhaps was not direct enough link between one and the other for me to feel it was down to me. Was a bit shocking at the time though.

Also of course when I say I kept them out I wasn't the only person involved in making that happen.