Aibu to feel sad that welsh is not compulsory in schools in Wales .

[Dowser]

Says it all really.

It's part of the heritage and it's a worry it will die out.

Don't understand it myself.

I am English, Welsh learner, living in Ceredigion.

My husband speaks Welsh at home, as do his family who we have a lot of contact with. Our son goes to a Welsh speaking school, his friends speak Welsh, he watches Welsh TV (as well as English) and reads Welsh language books etc etc. I speak Welsh with him too, but it's my 4th language so I find it difficult to speak all the time at the moment!

However, his English is better than his Welsh and he speaks mostly in English (which is fine).

My husband and SIL are both scientists of different kinds and have not struggled at all with technical/academic language. Their grammar in both languages is excellent.

Although we might not notice it day to day in Wales, English is everywhere; the kids I know who only speak Welsh all day still have no problems learning English because of this.

Also, there seems to be an idea that one maternal language works against the other, which is just not true. They don't cancel each other out, they help each other. It's not the same as a second language.

All in the name of welsh nationalism ... Yes. I'd be genuinely interested to know more about education suffering when it's completely through Welsh. Do you have a link?

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/pupils-taught-english-getting-better-8637212

Will get more when I'm back home. It is really is true that pupils being taught in welsh medium schools don't do as well as their English medium counterparts.

annie have you considered that your children may have picked up on your thinly-veiled dislike for the language?

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/stephen-crabb-slams-welsh-education-8570241

I grew up in Wales from the age of 9 (42 now) I love the country, I really do. I still have family there and visit regularly. But at my secondary school the English pupils were subject to treatment from the teachers (and some Welsh pupils) which would now be recognised as racist and bullying. For that reason alone I moved away as soon as I left school. My husband attended the same school, and we have often considered going back as we love the area - but will not subject the DC to the education we had. There is no evidence that our school has changed approach - if anything it looks worse.

"Er, I don't feel 'threatened' at all by the Welsh language, I just think that welsh medium education from 3-16 is detrimental to a persons future opportunities in life, should they ever decide to drive half an hour from home. In fact, I don't just 'think' I have seen this time and again.

Teach welsh as a language, keep the culture alive etc - but completely Welsh medium education IS detrimental to a child's education. Is is is. Proven.

All in the name of welsh nationalism. THAT is why I don't like it. Because MY children's education and and opportunities will suffer from being in welsh medium education."

What utter bollocks.

It's quite true that not all of the best teachers are fluent in Welsh. However, I'm not relying on any educational establishment to educate my daughter. We've opted to give her a foundation education in Welsh. She's spoken to all day in Welsh and is absorbing it at a rate of knots. We try to keep up at home, learning the songs that she sings and reading Welsh books with her, watching Welsh programmes etc. Eye spy is played "something dechrau gyda". I hope that by 11 she's pretty fluent. We hope that she'll continue to Welsh medium secondary education, but if teaching in specialisms such as science and maths aren't good then she won't (or we'll support those subjects at home). It's about giving her options, not making her a Welsh nationalist!

I think that's up to the Welsh to decide. Not people living in other parts of the UK. Frankly I think it's a waste of time but it's not up to me.

And if you can't see how the statistic twisting in those articles alters the story, I worry about your basic maths awareness.

I have visited Cardiff (Caerdydd?) twice for the day in the last six months, mostly fo shopping. And I heard Welsh being spoken, right outside the central library, by that big ring thing. If even a tourist hears Welsh being spoken in Cardiff, Welsh is spoken there,definitely! (Yng Nghaerdydd?)

"Of course there are still English schools! And yes, kids come out of Welsh schools still able to speak English as well, and even able to travel an hour down the road and find work"

Sure, but I am talking about future developments, not what is happening right now. There has been a move towards pushing Welsh more in Wales, as far as I can tell, which is fine in itself, but I would not like to see this getting to the point where more and more people did not have the option of an English-speaking school.

And my point was not about people who are in WM right from the start--it was about non-Welsh speaking families coming in from outside. If I were given the option of moving to Wales for a business opportunity, I would turn it down if I no longer the option of an English speaking state school. I would not want my own child in WM for the reasons mentioned in my previous post, though I think it can be a great option for a lot of people.

If you read to the end of the first article, it says welsh medium schools actually out perform English medium schools.

No, Moomin. As I said they didn't get it from me. It wasn't in my interests to have two kids hating the language after uprooting them so I made sure of that. Why you would think to question it I don't know. And it's thinly veiled - no hyphen needed after an adverb ending in ly. Sorry to bring that up but it's one of my bugbears.

I went to private school in Wales. Welsh was not compulsory and we didn't even have a Welsh teacher. You still had to do a foreign language though.

" I just think that welsh medium education from 3-16 is detrimental"

well then choose the English medium secondary school, what is the problem?
My son attends a school that is truly bilingual, for example in science the teacher will use both languages where necessary.
The maths teacher is quite dogmatic about it - will write
'Pythagoras' Theorem' on the board and then 'Theorem Pythagoras' beneath......er yeh OK.

Yes, but it seems to be saying that after adjusting for different intakes, the EM ones are doing slightly better. WM schools tend to have a more middle-class intake.

DisappointedOne I am confused by our post @12:53.

In response to the poster saying that Welsh medium education was detrimental you said "utter bollocks"

But you then say that you are "not relying on any educational establishment to educate my daughter". Does that mean she is home-educated? And if so is that not demonstrating your own ack of faith in the educational establishments local to you?

Or am I misunderstandng your point?

Lucky then that absolutely Nobody is suggesting banning English in Welsh schools!! And lucky that even with proposed changes to the curriculum such as Welsh bacc, English is still very much a focus for educators. Look, out of the two languages Welsh is far more likely to fall by the wayside than English. Your English speaking children will not lose their mother tongue just by being compelled to learn Welsh. Promise . I am as far from Welsh nationalist as can be. Heck, I'm not even British! But my ds has thrived in a welsh medium school and is advantaged by being bilingual. It really doesn't need to be as hard as some people make it sound.

Sunny I have nothing against Welsh teaching being available - only against it being compulsory. Why should it be?

We're not worried about English falling by the wayside Movealong . We're more worried about the resources put into various aspects and the lack of choice. I am anyway. I made a mistake leaving to come here. It's not the country I grew up in anymore. Luckily I'm self-employed and can go anywhere and had options with private schooling for the kids. I hear so many moan about in South Wales, especially the Welsh Bacc which has been dumbed down like no one's business from what I hear. On top of news reports now and again highlighting how far Wales is behind England then the state of education in the country is not good. Then there's the health service here. Most kids will leave Wales for higher education. A lot won't come back.

well then choose the English medium secondary school, what is the problem?

There is no English speaking school. I don't HAVE a choice. That's my problem.

My only choice is to send my children to a nationalist school to receive a welsh medium (and therefore proven to be substandard) education and in all likelihood have to put up with snide comments about having an English parent throughout.

Sadly moving out of the area is not a realistic option.

Posted too soon....

But having my children educated in English, the MAJORITY language for the country, should be.

annielouise Sorry, it must be my Welsh education ruining my English skills. Of course, I crashed and burned at GCSE English

I conduct all my work through the medium of Welsh. Written and spoken every day. I speak Welsh in shops, at the doctors at playgroups. My DS goes to Welsh medium nursery. It isn't the minority language where I live.
Also I don't understand comments above about it being a colloquial language. There is a fine, strong literary tradition in Wales.
Also I studied science and maths in Welsh medium and switched to English for A level, had no problem with the terminology. I just know the Welsh and English terminology.
I also did English at A level. I really don't think that a Welsh medium education is a disadvantage.
I'm sure bilingualism is advantageous to most people.

Well, no Annie it sounds like Wales is not the place for you and you are fortunate to be able to leave in that case. Personally I really like Wales, it is beautiful and rich in history. Horses for courses I suppose!

PP's saying "i live in/by cardiff and hear welsh daily" I really don't hear it, at all. I've been trying to pin point a time where i've heard it spoken out and about and I can think of 2.
One when I got the bus from cardiff to barry and another time when I was at work with my boss speaking to a customer who couldn't speak english. I'm 20,I've been in wales since birth. Born in swansea and raised in mayhill area, then moved to Llanrumney in cardiff at 13, back to swansea for a year then to pentwyn in cardiff, then I moved to blaina with my dp at 16, Then to abergavenny, bridgend, swansea, Caerphilly and now live in cardiff but in the process of moving to trefforest. I very, very very very rarely hear welsh spoken, at all and none of my friends can speak it beyond basic level. I can ask for directions, give basic directions, tell you my name, age , what I like to do, what i like and dislike in terms of food and refreshments and ironically can say I don't speak welsh well, I cannot say more than that. I do find it sad that the language is dying out, very sad. But I think it shouldn't have as much financial support with the country as it is right now.