Aibu to feel sad that welsh is not compulsory in schools in Wales .

[Dowser]

Says it all really.

It's part of the heritage and it's a worry it will die out.

Don't understand it myself.

I don't recall how I answered it, but i usually have trouble with answering it the way it's posed. I have an A level in (second language) Welsh, so have a decent enough comprehension of it almost 20 years later. However, I'm less confident writing Welsh and my spoken Welsh is probably somewhere in the middle. I never think I'm right to say that I am a Welsh speaker, because I don't now use it very day, but I have a much better understanding of it than someone that never learnt any. I'm at least fairly intelligent, so it's likely that others like me don't know how to answer either. Hence I wouldn't be using the census as some kind of holy grail proof.

By that score then maybe more overestimated their abilities and said they were able to speak, read and write it, bumping up the figures that actually are truly bilingual. The figure will roughly be right, a few percentage points either side, so about 12-17% say.

Yes but Annie my point was that wherever I lived in Wales i would encourage my kids to learn the language properly as then they would have the freedom to live and work where they choose.
Learning Welsh opens some doors and doesn't close any. So what is the problem

And I don't really appreciate you telling me my experiences and opinions aren't valid because they don't tie in with yours.
Surely the point of any kind of debate is to hear different perspectives

Well, I don't get what the big deal is. It's one GCSE out of many. Ok, it may not be of much immediate relevance, but learning a language is a useful discipline.

Because your experience isn't valid overall to the majority of the population, just to your area and your experience, mama, where the minority is. And ditto. My view is just as valid and has the weight of the majority behind it going by the statistics. Despite Welsh medium schools more people are saying they don't speak it over the past 10 years.

We don't expect a student with GCSE French to be at a bilingual standard. It is just not possible without immersion in a language. For me that seems to be an argument for more not less teaching of Welsh. Uniquely in the UK Wales has the opportunity to educate bilingually.

The benefits of being bilingual are immense. I have known some gifted Welsh linguists, able to rapidly acquire other languages. If I had school age DC in Wales I would view this as a blessing not a curse.

So let the kids choose which language they want to study, notsogoldenoldie. Why not? What's Wales got to be scared of? Better to have a child invested in the language he or she is interested it and will therefore hopefully will take to a higher level, that's all we're asking. If they stay in Wales it still helps trade links with other countries if they can speak another language.

Agree rennie

In English speaking schools though Rennie, despite potentially 7 years at primary and 5 at secondary the kids still are leaving bilingual.

And they can be immersed if they choose to go to a Welsh medium school.

I think it is interesting to see how antagonistic the English still are towards the Welsh. I am really baffled as to why. A strange primal fear of the oppressor towards the oppressed? They don't seem to have quite the same attitude towards the Scots, perhaps because Scotland is considered posher

Believe me, there is plenty of antagonism towards the Scots from various places. Have you not seen the hysterical coverage about the the horrific possibility of the SNP wielding some power in WM?

annielouise That's fantastic news if they can achieve bilingual students in English speaking schools. Hats off to them!

I agree your experience is valid Annie that's why I didn't suggest you pipe down, which is basically what you did to me

Its All I could not agree more. This monstering of the Scots after the all out campaign to tell them how much we loved them and wanted them to stay before the referendum.

I would have thought that welsh helps with french if you are a linguist.

I would have thought that speaking or learning Welsh would help with language learning in general. Maybe that is why some English feel so threatened by it - cos they know how rubbish they are at it. Maybe.
BTW I just got off the school bus into town - there was a general bilingual chatter - what's the problem with it?

oops, well spotted Rennie, obviously I meant to say after 12 years they're still not bilingual.

I didn't tell you to pipe down mama. All I'm saying is just because your experience is it's important in your area where a minority of the population live that doesn't make it an argument that it should be compulsory for the whole of Wales as for the majority it's not important or relevant. Anyone can keep coming up with the odd experience - my friend's hairdresser uses the language 20 years after school. Well, yes she would if she lives in an area where Welsh is widely spoken etc. I think I even said pages back it makes sense for you and people like you but it doesn't make it sense for all. If it did, the percentage of people that can speak it would be going up by now. Unless Wales is full of thickos, which you can't say.

Sunny, you don't seem to realise the vast majority in Wales will say they're Welsh, not English, they just don't speak the language. This is not an argument between the Welsh and the English. It's Welsh and Welsh, some Welsh speaking, most English speaking, but all Welsh.

sorry Annie but vague terms like 'the vast majority' are a bit meaningless.
and thanks but I do 'realise' that areas are different. You do not need to be patronising, it doesnt help your argument.

"So let the kids choose which language they want to study, notsogoldenoldie. Why not?"

I'm not sure my daughter understood the concept at age 2..........

BUT I'm not just saying so and so and so and so speak Welsh. I'm giving my opinion on why it's a good thing throughout Wales. My argument is simple it increases options and doesn't close any.
Learning Welsh doesn't preclude someone from learning other languages and generally helps with that. It increases your ability to move and work in different places, means you can read and understand some fantastic literature, exercises the mind.
If the teaching of Welsh is substandard where you live then that should be addressed. Just as substandard teaching in any subject shOuld be addressed.
It's not like a brain only has a certain capacity and if you teach someone Welsh then they have no room for maths.

Annie I agree with you in that I don't believe that Welsh is particularly useful in the wider world. But I believe learning a language is a skill in itself and, in Wales, why shouldn't that language be Welsh? I'm a Welsh speaker myself, although I don't use it every day. But it has been useful inasmuch that, in Wales at least, it is a very useful addition to a CV. It's certainly given me an edge over other job applicants.

"I would have thought that speaking or learning Welsh would help with language learning in general."

Agree. Any choice of 2nd language taught to primary and gcse children is going to be a bit random.

The reality in England is that most schools teach one or two languages and they don't teach anybody to speak them fluently. French or Spanish are not vastly more relevant to the average 7 year old than welsh is. The difference is that if you live in Wales you have the immense advantage of your 2nd language being readily accessible on tv and radio and on signs, even if you never hear anybody speak it.

However, if welsh people want other choices of language, afaik, that has nothing to do with the English whatsoever - it is a democratic issue to be dealt with in Wales.