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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People accused of sex crimes shouldn't be given anonymity

538 replies

GallicGarlic · 22/03/2015 12:17

I am positively astonished that, as they face sex crime allegations, MPs say sex crime suspects deserve anonymity.

This will mean no e-fit pictures of suspects, no CCTV releases, no calls for other victims to come forward. AIBU to think this is jolly convenient for serial perpetrators? And to ask you to sign a petition?

OP posts:
Nomama · 24/03/2015 14:33

Ah fuck it!

If you must misread me so often, have it your way!

Though take note... you are doing that which you decry!

Put as plainly as I can: continually posting that women do not/cannot report rape is pointless and self defeating

Get up and get out there and do something that will help women report rape. That is... stop fucking moaning that men rule the world. Stop shouting down the voice of women who say "All you have to do is stand up" - just because you may not have does not mean it cannot be done successfully.

Where are the threads that talk about strong women who have bad things happen and just stand up and say "You will not change me"?

Why don't they exist? The women exist. Many posters here are such women. I can see how hard it is to post against the tide... this is not the first time other women have told me to fuck off because I disagree with the stereotype they espouse.

Apparently, despite it being a truism here, you simply do not believe me!

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 14:34

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GallicGarlic · 24/03/2015 14:34

Nomama's posts don't seem to have much to do with anything under discussion.

The girls in Rotherham & Rochdale were told by the police to go away & stop being a nuisance.

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TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 14:35

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PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 14:35

How is saying that victim blaming is wrong, and sex offenders should be held to account for their actions, saying that women are weak?

I don't understand where you get this from.

Of course some people are more vulnerable than others - people with mental health problems, addiction issues, people who are very young or old, or have chaotic lives, or have been previously abused etc etc etc this needs saying, there is nothing wrong with saying it at all.

Sallystyle · 24/03/2015 14:35

My dad taught me well! I can't believe I just read it. The more I read this thread the more ashamed I am that I wasn't going to sign it. Thanks to the posters who opened my mind.

My mum taught me well. Didn't stop my neighbour threatening to kill himself if I did perform sexual favours for him when I was 13. Didn't stop him sending me porn drawings of myself he did or all the hundreds of letters telling me he was going to jump off the bridge if I didn't give him a blowjob after school. Or all the names he called me or when he followed me home from school, got me in an alley and showed me his erection and wanked off over me. I put up with it all and did everything he asked me (he was 15).

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 14:38

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sleeponeday · 24/03/2015 14:43

Yes, you can't find someone guilty of rape, solely based on the fact that they were previously accused of rape by someone else can you?

"Similar fact evidence". Not solely the accusation, no. But if several women say a bloke chatted them up in a pub, offered to walk them home, then brutally raped them when they reached the door, then the chances they all invented those facts independently, and were able to tell the police a course of very similar, coherent, and systematic events, look slim. And knowing of a previous conviction or accusation can make a victim feel either emboldened or obligated to report her own - look at what happened over Yew Tree.

Of course it's horrendous for men falsely accused. But it's pretty horrendous for women truthfully accusing, and failing to get convictions - especially when the bloke then rapes someone else, too. There is no right answer with this one - it's a question of which victim you want to prioritise: innocent men accused of a horrific crime, or raped people (boys and men are sometimes victims, after all) denied the supporting fact evidence of other victims, and thus justice.

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 14:46

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FickleByNurture · 24/03/2015 14:47

I've had horrific experiences with men (and women although apparently women aren't legally able to be rapists), none of which I reported.

I still think that both accused and victim should be anonymous until the accused is charged. For some of the instances in my case if my abuser was named it would lead straight back to me and even if he/she was not taken to court I'd suffer.

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 14:53

People who are close to the people involved are likely always going to know who is involved, or at least be able to hazard a pretty good guess.

These proposals are about names being released in the press, to the general public. And about names being told to people in inquiries where they are no longer / immediately connected.

I don't see a way of stopping people close to the people finding out what is going on, and that seems to be what a lot of people are hoping for.

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 14:57

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PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 14:57

So like a man I knew at work got arrested while at work for serious offences (not sex related). There's no way of stopping everyone else who works there knowing about it. Refusing to say why someone is arrested will just lead to speculation and people will imagine all sorts.

Thinking about the posts it seems to me that most people who want anonymity are concerned about people's workplaces, friends, family etc finding out they have been arrested but realistically that is often going to happen anyway isn't it.

These proposals are around people being named in the press which is not likely unless the person is famous or the crime particularly heinous.

PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 14:58

Are you sure TheBlackRider, about them being able to name suspects to other potential victims etc?

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 15:00

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PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 15:01

YY you see I think most people who are calling for anonymity, it's workplaces and friends, family etc they want the information kept from. I don't see how that is workable though.

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 15:01

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FickleByNurture · 24/03/2015 15:02

I don't have a particularly common maiden name. If I accused my father of having abused me as a child and the accusation didn't stick, I'd be worried about my colleagues, friends and acquaintances finding out.

If the charges did stick then the ensuing gossip would at least feel a bit more worth it.

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 15:02

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PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 15:03

So really I wonder if a lot of people are supporting something that is not what this proposal actually is. Or something.

This is designed to protect the rich, powerful and famous (who are about to be investigated for organised paedophilia).

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 15:05

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TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 15:07

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PilchardPrincess · 24/03/2015 15:07

Fickle what do you propose around friends, family, acquaintances, work etc?

Because this proposal is mainly about media reporting, so more extreme crimes / more famous suspects.

TheBlackRider · 24/03/2015 15:09

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FickleByNurture · 24/03/2015 15:18

I'd assume that if the accused was a family member then your family would know the allegation early on, ditto your friend group if the accused was a friend. That's understandable and unavoidable. It's the people on the fringes of your life who I'd worry about - people at work, friends of friends. I'd hope the police would practice discretion. If it's done correctly there shouldn't be any need for this anonymity law.

I don't believe that every person accused of rape is a rapist and I don't believe that every victim is a liar. I also understand miscarriages of justice can occur. I just believe that people shouldn't be named in any criminal case unless they have been formally charged.