Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

[startrek90]

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

Thistledew Sat 21-Mar-15 16:15:40

Great post Thistle, I don't mind what people do I just don't want it thrust down my throat!

"Nicely positioning yourself there so YOU can comfortably Critise the religion YOU have a bugbear with but simultaneously gagging people who have a problem with ISLAM."

Not gagging anyone- and delighted to express the many issues I have with islam. (Did you click on my Marcus Brigstocke link, by the way?)

Are you denying, however, that some criticism of Islam stems from racism?

God and his unconditional love. Makes me all warm and fuzzy.

Its a non issue, no.

There are millions of different races who are muslim and millions who are not but share same heritage.

I usually find people who do not like Islam do not like the religion of Islam.

And I dislike MORE the closing down of talk of Islam as racist.

All religions should come under scrutiny.

star much better to work on yourself and learn to not care what people say.

I am not religious but I like many aspects of Christianity, and the Bible stories, are lovely. The Noahs ark toys are wonderful.

Not acceptable at all, really.

And op I am sorry this was put to you in RL too, that is v rude and inconsiderate.

Yes religion is bla but people fail to appreciate its good points and its a source of comfort when little else is left, it has comforted millions.

"The Noahs ark toys are wonderful." It's not a complete set though unless you have lots of drowned figures too, some having been battered against the rocks, some infants, some cute little dead drowned kittens. Cos that's such a lovely story, isn't it!

(Did you click on my Marcus Brigstocke link, by the way?)

Is that to me or AlPacino? As you posted the link in response to one of my posts, but the quote you are commenting on was made by AlPacino

Surely atheists by definition are including all of the theist religions in any criticism, not just Christianity. Of course many of us who have been raised within a Christian culture will have more knowledge and experience of Christianity, and will have been more likely to have been affected by it.

As a lesbian woman I am only too aware that the vast majority of opposition to equal marriage, for instance, came from the major religious groups in England and Wales. But the only group with power to actually debate and vote on the legislation were the Christians, who did their damndest to prevent it going through.

Many of you may recall the debates and legislation around abortion.

And the majority of the online opposition to equal marriage, and matters concerning abortion, came from self defined religious people who besides often venting their opinions in the most insulting and demeaning terms, also take to themselves the right not only to live their lives as they wish, but to control the lives of everyone else.

Many Christians, including I believe former Archbishop of Canterbury, Lord Carey, have declared themselves 'persecuted' as Christians since equality laws began to bite by people actually using them to challenge the status quo.

If you think that you have faith, but you are minding your own business and not harming anyone, you are mistaken. You are enabling the religious groups to point at their large numbers of followers in order to claim legitimacy for their excercise of power.

Hakluyt that is totally not what I said, nor is it what I think. I did not say if one understood faith they would have faith too. It is possible to understand some one's position without sharing that position. All I was hoping for was increased understanding. Please try to read and understand what is said without twisting it through your own filter to suit your own agenda.

• It's not a complete set though unless you have lots of drowned figures too, some having been battered against the rocks, some infants, some cute little dead drowned kittens. Cos that's such a lovely story, isn't it

Like any story in life then?!

"Mock them, ridicule them, in public … with contempt"
(Richard Dawkins)

YANBU

Lots of us with you Desperately. God bless you and your child.

So tempted to enter into this thread but I really mustn't...

And desperately I'm one of the ones who's not with you, although I wish you and your family well......and please don't love me - there really is no need.

Anyone seen the op lately??

When did it become acceptable to be rude to anyone? I don't find rudeness acceptable.

Oh blimey you're loving me now aren't you!? Stoppit!

No seriously, you seem like a nice person and you can love me if you want but it's for you not me. Ok?

• It's not a complete set though unless you have lots of drowned figures too, some having been battered against the rocks, some infants, some cute little dead drowned kittens. Cos that's such a lovely story, isn't it

Like any story in life then?!"

Do you actually know the story of Noah and his Ark?

Individual spiritual faith is different to organised state 'religion'. I would think people tend to criticise the latter, because it is more about power and control and less about personal belief.

Are you denying that some criticism of Islam stems from racism?

I would deny this.

Anyone criticising Islam is criticising a set of doctrines. Doctrines are not people so it can never, under any circumstances, be considered racist to criticise (or even hate) them.

That person, might, in the next breath start laying into Muslims and may display racism then - they may be racist, homophobic, misogynistic bigots through and through - but their criticim of Islam can never be "racist" because Islam is not a person.

That is not to say that Muslims don't face racism. They do. But criticism of their ideology is not it, and it does not help one iota to keep pretending that it is.

Islam is a hateful, blood thirsty religion that hates women = not racist

Muslims are hateful, blood thirsty people that hate women = racist.

As Trevor Philips said this week..."Facts are not racist". Not even when racists say them.

Aw desperately I'm just doing a little good natured teasing so I'm glad you're cool with that

These kind of threads could do with a bit of love and humour imo if people are ever going to listen to and understand each other. So a big atheistic hug for you!

I also found desperately post very touching . I am a Christian ( from a very religious family ) but I genuinely don't feel as passionately or as deeply as you . Reading your post helps me understand (a bit) how a close family member of mine has managed to bear so much.

That's why the 'hating posts ' upset me so much , or rather sadden me.

There is so much more to religion than bigotry , doctrine and all the other issues hurled it's way

Love , charity , tolerance , acceptance to name a few

Anyway - keep on hating if you so wish

Returning to the original question, of course it's not okay to be rude because someone has a different opinion. However, it is okay to state your own position. As a fence-sitting agnostic, I try to respect all religious beliefs. However, I am also a feminist and equalist and so opinions that I hold dear are often at odds with those believers of 'the book' who believe my sex is fashioned from a rib and my gay friends are damned. I have as much right to defend my own beliefs as a religious person.

The Marcus Brigstock YouTube rant was amusing, I wanted to post Stephen Fry's take on religion (see below).
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo

Personally, I believe in freedom of choice, for all, including children. This beautiful piece of poetry was written by the Lebanese artist Kahlil Gibran.

On Children

Your children are not your children,
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
Which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
But seek not to make them like you,
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are set forth,
The archer sees the mark on the path of the infinite,
And He bends you with His might,
That his arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archers hand be for gladness,
For even as he loves the arrow that flies,
So he loves also the bow that is stable.