Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

[startrek90]

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

for some reason I thought Goebbels was a Lutheran - thanks for putting me right

atheists like to joke that he was excommunicated for marrying a protestant, not for being a head nazi. I don't know if that is true.

i certainly don't doubt christianity exists.

And therefore, you'd agree (the concept of ) God exists in people. He is even manifested, physically (in the physiological presentation of their thought processes).

And therefore, you'd agree (the concept of ) God exists in people. He is even manifested, physically (in the physiological presentation of their thought processes).

oh, I have excellent evidence that people think God exists and he/she/it exists in their minds, and the concept of God exists. we have ample evidence of that. I certainly agree with that.

Not such a stretch to recognise God as a Zeitgeist then. The collective belief taking on a (non physical or spiritual) life of it's own becoming bigger than the sum of the individual beliefs.

ok. Doesn't mean their concept of god exists. Two different ideas.

Spiritual presence is different to physical existence. God is a spirit. He was embodied (physically) in Christ - who is now in Heaven. All according to Christian belief.

those are all different ideas, and support for one doesn't give support for others. The fact that he exists as thoughts in people's head is different from physically existing which in turn is different from spiritually existing (whatever that is).

I suspect you understand the phenomenon of Zeitgest, keep. If so you'd understand some of how a spirit can work / exists.

As for physically existing, thought processes manifest physiologically in the brain and body and you could look for the evidence for Christ's existence.

I suspect you understand the phenomenon of Zeitgest

nope. no idea. as to your second sentence, again, no idea.

KeepItSimple -- are you disputing that the Bolsheviks/Communists were atheists? Or are you disputing that the atheist Bolsheviks/Communists killed millions of people?
I see you prefer bigotry and rudeness to Christians over historical accuracy and political engagement alike.

Your reference to secularism thriving in lots of other countries is on the one hand irrelevant and on the other very possibly relevant. Irrelevant as we are talking about the British context here, and relevant because you have to wonder whether secularists in other places are as embarrassed as they must be in Britain at the offensiveness displayed by so many atheists. Secularism might not have got off the ground at all in the US if it had been associated with the gobsmacking intolerance and the views on religion and people with a religious belief that have been posted here.

TheCat -- where to start with you?
Do you read much? (Apart from fringe sites on the internet where you seem to get most of your views on history, that is.) You would have to be a deeply committed bigot to baldly claim that the Nazis were anything but born-again pagans enamoured with the ancient German myths and that part of their policy was the destruction of organised Christian churches and Christian beliefs.

Hakluyt, every single thing you are complaining about was actually a statement of fact, and not one bit rude.

BTW, You do realise I was quoting SGB's offensive post when I used the phrase 'bigoted dumbfuck(s)', right?

I have already supplied you with your requested list of rude and offensive posts. (You chose to dismiss it on the spurious grounds that bald and sweeping statements that were scathing, rude, offensive, intolerant and bigoted were actually factual statements, which was disappointing as I think I mentioned, but not really surprising.)

"BTW, You do realise I was quoting SGB's offensive post when I used the phrase 'bigoted dumbfuck(s)', right?" Yes. I was agreeing with you,

Sorry, keep, just realised I made a rather obvious typo, that should have read 'zeitgeist'. I would have thought you might have still recognised the term though.

www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/zeitgeist

Literally means, 'spirit of the people' and shows how collective beliefs have a life of their own which are bigger than the individuals who hold them. I think the term zeitgeist illustrates how something can 'exist' as a non physical entity (as in spiritual) in the collective imagination.

keep when I say thought processes manifest physiologically in the brain and in turn body, I mean that there is a physiological, chemical and electronic impulse signature which presents in the brain as we think. This, in turn, leads to physical changes in the body, as our brains are the control centres for our bodies.

Honestly capsium, it's not splitting hairs just because it's logical and you don't agree with it! You presented evidence that Christianity existed, not that the premises it's based on exists. It's not splitting hairs - they're fundamentally different points.

If your argument has come down to 'lots of people believe it therefore it exists in a way' then really I think I can rest easy that the evidence you mentioned up-thread that shows that the premises that religions are founded on might be true is pretty non-existent. And that it is in no way the same as the evidence based beliefs that some people use to make future plans.

And I don't think anyone ever denied that God exists in peoples' imaginations!

I am amazed at the rudeness on this thread.
I would call it bullying, it would be anywhere else - done to a child at school for example.
It is well known bullying tactics. The bully says the most dreadful things and then says 'I am not being rude, I am only giving facts' followed by ' you must be very fragile if you can't take it- you need to grow a back bone'

There are also some who are very good at dishing it out but can't take it themselves.

There are still many who don't know the difference between fact and opinion.

They will come back to my post all wide eyed and state 'tell me where I am being rude? It isn't rude to state facts'. Completely missing the point that it is facts as they see them - or that deliberately rubbishing someone else's beliefs is rude and hurtful.

People ought to think before they post and exercise a little tact and kindness. Lots more people read these threads than post. Many may well be going through a traumatic time, with the death of a loved one etc and find some of this very hard to take.

You can disagree politely, with tact- it isn't difficult! The degree of hatred by some posters is astounding.

So. If I say there is no more reason for believing in God than there is for believing in fairies, is that rude?

And there are different types of thread. Obviously on a prayer thread, or on a thread where somebody is asking for support from other believers, then it would be crass in the extreme to post any sort of question. But on a thread specifically discussing religion, surely people should be able to speak openly?

There are still many who don't know the difference between fact and opinion.

If you're talking about me asserting that someone reporting that they and their children had been called sinners was a fact (unless you're saying they made it up) then I think it's you that isn't able to distinguish between fact and opinion.

I have to say that to me seeking to stop people expressing their own views on a discussion thread by calling everyone who disagrees with you (even perfectly politely) is a form of bullying in itself. I agree some people have been rude -on both sides - but not all the atheists have by any means.

I honestly think a blanket accusation of 'hatred' here is very extreme.

Binky I said earlier you cannot prove or disprove God, or the 'premise' of Christianity. However there is evidence (or data) regarding what is written in the Bible and what is according to church tradition. What is believed concerning that is essentially, well belief. This was my point earlier.

I would not underestimate the power in people's imaginations either. Essentially states of mind, thought patterns affect people on a physical level. On a collective basis they can affect a whole culture, a whole society.

At least we have an agreement that some have been rude on both sides- a little progress.

Well done Hak - you immediately came back and fulfilled my prediction!

And yes- I do find comparison to fairies rude.