Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

[startrek90]

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

Oh well, I think it would be interesting to have a much wider debate about various religions and their practices. I think the arguments about just Christianity have been done to death and are quite dull as they just go around in circles.

Also, if God wanted us to cut it off, why did he put it there in the first place?

Wasn't it something that the (male) Israelites had to do to mark themselves as different from the gentiles?

Koala - arguably piercing babies' ears is mutilation, that's legal and is done for simple adornment (sometimes with a strong cultural element).

Koala, it's been done to death.

BigDorrit -- according to some on this thread, Christians are oppressing anyone who is not Christian, and stopping them from living their lives the way they want to live. Since Anabaptists, Calvinists, Pentacostalists, Quakers, Baptists, and the Church of God in Christ are all Christian denominations, I would love to hear what you think of the subtleties and nuances of their belief systems (clearly there are subtleties and nuances or we could just lump them together and call them 'Christian' after all) and how they all oppress you and stop you from living the life you want to lead.

I did not even hint at your interpretation of what I said, btw.
('So offering an opinion on anything is oppressing people?')

But the difference there is that it can be reversed Errol if you grow up not like your ear piercing you can take the earrings out and the hole would close over. The foreskin isn't going to make a reappearance if a male grows up and decides they don't like being circumcised and want it back!

Saying that, I certainly wouldn't pierce my child's ears.

Is that the circumcision debate math or the debates about Christianity?

I haven't ever seen a thread on here about whether circumcision will be banned in the future. I have seen a few on whether it should be done or not but I think posters tip toe around the issue as they don't want to offend Muslims or Jews.

Which is bizarre as they don't tip toe around Christians at all!

I had my DDs' ears pierced when they were children, and DS is circumcised. So shoot me.
And I haven't worn earrings for years and still have holes in my earlobes.

Ah, thanks Errol, now I know.

Hang on though, what if the baby doesn't want to identify as an Israelite? What then? Bit late by then.

Both Koala..

Why would anyone shoot you math?

Did your toddlers/babies nag you for earrings Math? Oh, I hate it when babies do that?

When are you getting their navels done? That's looks so pretty innit?

I didn't mean that you just discarded it. However you can't take it literally. Central messages apply- as in 'do unto others as they would do unto you' etc. It was written by men- you don't read other books uncritically- why read the Bible uncritically?
not ignoring future comments -I'm off to bed.

The biggest Christian denomination in the world uses both the NT and the OT and also relies on sacred tradition. It is what is called a prima scriptura approach as opposed to sola scriptura. In this particular denomination, the NT is considered completely meaningless without the OT.

Do you really hear a lot of 'Christians' referring to the Bible endlessly, BigDorrit?

If yes, then I find that really odd. I know a lot of 'Christians' and not a single one has ever referred to the Bible in the course of general conversation.

Ranting about Christianity makes sense though?

No it doesn't, but I probably shouldn't have said ranting.

Admit it, 'the specific criticisms of Christianity on this thread' are the stock in trade of certain posters who always show up to bash Christianity.

My guess is that you haven't read what some of these people have said about islam, as you may not have been involved in those discussions. but criticism of islam happens a lot here.

referring to my posts on this thread, someone said they believe they have good evidence for the resurrection, without prior baiting from me. I called them on it; they responded. I responded back. that's not bashing christianity unless you think christians can make statements with the expectation of not being questioned on them.

a political circumstance that would be changed far faster if secularists weren't so offensive to believers

so if we just kept quiet religious bullying and special treatment will cease (referring to the UK)? Forgive me if I think this is unlikely.

Buddhism, Confucianism, Taoism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Seventh Day Adventism, Mormonism, Sufis, Shias, Shi'ites, Rastafarianism, Shinto, modern paganism, Anabaptists, Calvinists, Pentacostalists, Quakers, Baptists, the Church of God in Christ, etc.. The last six, being Christian, are oppressing some people on this thread.

Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists really don't affect me that much, so I naturally don't comment about them. In the Uk, it's the christians and muslims that take up the most space, so attract the most attention. I don't see what's mystifying about that.

My point was that people on the thread are saying they have an issue with religion but the only examples of issues they have are with Christianity.

Because Christianity holds a pre-eminent position within England, the established church holds sway over everyday life that other religions do not. Children have christian school assemblies foisted on them from an early age, CofE Bishops sit in the House of Lords and can amend legislation.

Some of these unjustifiable privileges are being chipped away at, so when religious ideas are questioned or criticised, it must feel like they are being discriminated against, so used are they to having their opinions treated with unwarranted deference. It is the equivalent of middle-class straight white men claiming they are being discriminated against because some of the advantages they've enjoyed are slowly being challenged.

math - you're in the US, aren't you? Circumcision seems much more of the cultural norm there than in the UK. Not sure why the difference. Anyway, it would be entirely inconsistent for people against circumcision etc to shoot you without your informed consent so I think you're safe.

Sorry, not taking this very seriously, think it's well past my bedtime. Goodnight all.

Ah right, if math is in the US that makes alot more sense.

All religions are equally ludicrous and stupid, because the central premise of all religion - that there is this invisible, special, super-being that made everyone and takes an interest in everthing - is bullshit. How harmful different types of religion - and how deserving of contempt or loud disagreement the followers of any religion are... Well, that gets a bit more mixed.
The reason Christianity gets most of the flak on MN is mainly because most MNers live in the UK, where it is the state superstition and therefore a) the most likely to be a fucking nusiance in most MNers' lives and b) the one most MNers have some sort of familiarity with, however dull and irrelevant we may find it.

Mind you, the person who had a go at the OP for buying a toy boat with animals on was being a bit daft as well as rude. What's one more fairy story-themed toy except a bit of fun for a kid?

Christians are oppressing anyone who is not Christian

I don't know where you live math but we have a state religion in the UK. We do in fact get christianity in large doses here, from school assemblies in state schools to publicly funded religious schools.

People would be a lot more quiet about christianity if this wasn't the case.

Mind you, the person who had a go at the OP for buying a toy boat with animals on was being a bit daft as well as rude.

agreed.

Keepitsimple:
Ranting was perfectly appropriate. Do you do much baiting?

[mathanxiety] a political circumstance that would be changed far faster if secularists weren't so offensive to believers
"so if we just kept quiet religious bullying and special treatment will cease (referring to the UK)? Forgive me if I think this is unlikely."
Ignore history if you wish. Rudeness to random believers isn't what made the US secular. Nor was it accomplished by broadcasting scorn for religion. It was accomplished by means of reasoned discussion on the benefits to the body politic of a secular society, and is maintained by reasoned discussion, and by broad acceptance of the principle of continued refinement of what it means via the courts. Yes there are fringe elements, but there always have been and the principle of secularism continues to be debated respectfully with the idea that some people have a religious faith and some people do not as a given that does not need to be addressed.

There is a difference between being rude to individuals (the sort of attack the OP complained about) and working reasonably on a political level to promote a secular society. If you choose rudeness to people with religious beliefs and scorning of what they believe (as seen on this thread and many others -- asking for proof of events, pooh poohing elements such as the ten commandments, calling it all ludicrous and stupid, etc) what you will achieve is the appearance of being intolerant and uncivil and with a bee in your bonnet about Christianity, and thus you will tarnish the secularist cause.

If other people taking up space is what irks you, have you considered the possibility that you may be just a misanthrope? It's just a random coincidence after all that you find yourself living in a place and at a time where most of the people breathing the air around you happen to be Christian or Muslim.

Sleep -- not as babies or toddlers, but when they were about 6 or 7 they started their earring campaigns. They survived their ear piercings at the dreaded Claire's. One DD had a mishap with an earring that needed to be extracted from her earlobe but as soon as she was healed she went back to get it re-pierced. When the older ones were teens they got second and third piercings in their ears. So far nobody has had a belly button pierced or a nose ring, eyebrow, tongue, lip, etc. It could well be that they got it all out of their systems with the relatively benign earlobe jobs.

ComposHat, you are confusing the Established Church of England with 'Christian religions'.
For long stretches of English, British, and even Irish history, the Established Church not only enjoyed a privileged position, but its competition among which numbered atheists as well as Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, and other non Conformists was severely disabled and in some cases clerics were persecuted, accused of treason by dint of their beliefs, hanged, drawn, and quartered. Property was confiscated, believers were disqualified from certain offices and professions and advancement in certain institutions. As a Christian who is not a member of the CoE and as someone with an interest in history, it really bothers me to see 'Christians' lumped together as if they all shared a position of privilege in the UK and always did. I often wonder how much history and what sort of history is studied in British schools. I already have a really dim view of the silly subject 'Religious Education'.

SGB, you are another who seems to be a disestablishmentarian and secularist who has somehow managed to lump in atheism with your secularist views.

BigDorrit, do you throw things at the TV when you hear drivel? What do you do during party political broadcasts?