AIBU to quit my job and retrain as a solicitor?

[Moobieboobie]

Should I not? I hate my job (civil service) although fairly well paid and have always hankered after joining the legal profession. But, I am almost 40 and have three children would I even have a chance at getting a training contract? I can self fund the GDL and LPC, but would need to have a training contract in place once the qualifications are completed. Am I totally unrealistic as I will be competing with lots of young'uns!?

It can be done. My DH retrained in his late 30s, got promoted within a magic circle firm very quickly and is now a partner there. His age was never a factor. But he couldn't have done it without me taking on lion's share of the childcare. The majority of female associates in his firm leave once they have small children because they cannot commit to the long hours and do not want full time nannies. The female partners in the firm have all had full time nannies and other staff since their DC were born.

Another solicitor here ....

I went on maternity leave over a year ago - and haven't gone back .... Literally ALL of the comments you make about your current job in your 11.57 post could have been written by me about mine. This thread suggest that most solicitors are negative about their jobs and the industry - but they are spot on ....

I really share your frustration. I'm a similar age to you and would like to retrain as a teacher. But everyone I've spoken to has told me that I'll regret it. Part of me thinks I should just do it as that's what I want to do - but part of me thinks that it could end up being a big mistake ....

Good luck OP in what you decide.

Have a look on the thread about an nqt struggling not to give up for an insight into teaching!
What about hr? Specialising in legal aspects? Much more family friendly and a variety of paths? Have a look at the Cipd website for ideas.
It might be worth contacting a career counsellor. Good luck.

50 k worried mum you the first solicitor apart from big firms where you work till 2am, sleep in office and start work again at 6am or partners ive heard that earn that much. I know what dh on and he has years of experience and its no way near that. It seems a very poorly paid profession with high risk of redundancy, long hours and you cant even claim mileage to travel and see clients!

Don't. I'm 55, have a decent LL.B and there is NO possibility of me earning more than shelf-stacker wages. Also my current job allows me to use the f-word freely.

I agree with BsshBosh. I'm 7 years' PQE at a City firm and currently on maternity leave. I find my legal career very mentally rewarding and the money in the City is excellent. But as Bssh noted, it is very demanding and unpredictable. Most mothers leave as you are expected to be fully committed and no concessions are made (I worked until midnight frequently when I was in my last trimester and once until 4am when I was 8 mths pregnant - none of the male partners thought to send me home). The very few female partners that I know are either single and childless (and therefore in a position to compete with male colleagues) or have full time nannies. I am going to try to go back but I won't sacrifice my DD's babyhood for it. As a senior associate, I at least have some flexibity over how I structure my day. OP, trainees and paralegals don't get that luxury. I wouldn't start out when they are small; I'd wait a decade then give it a go if it is your dream. Good luck!

Don't even think about it.

It's forty years since my articles, as we then called them, and I have seen the profession go downhill. We are no longer respected and I am not sure we deserve to be.

As others have said: if you are lucky enough (and have a good enough CV) to find training and work to justify the cost of the change you will be in a tough, long-hours, drop-everything-when-we-want-you environment. The clients aren't interested in what sort of private life you have so neither are the partners.

As for waiting a decade as lauralouise8 suggests: Get real. People are living longer and working alter in life, but there are only so many working years in anyone's life. I don't see anyone getting a training contract at fifty. It's not like older degree-students: if they choose to spend their time and money like that, that's their privilege. I dream of doing another degree when I retire, and I might, but it won't be for work purposes!

OP I'm sorry to sound discouraging. But that's how it is.

Just a thought - would you consider becoming a magistrate maybe? Then you'd fulfil some of your legal yearning and the civil service would be accommodating of the time off to do it, so it would also provide respite from the work environment. It sounds from the knowledgable PPs like making a total career change to law is inadvisable so maybe this could be the answer?

OP, I'm a similar age to you, and I went back to retrain as a lawyer. My training contract starts in September.

Ask yourself if you have a good cv and strong grades - you can't just 'pass'. Plenty of places will consider mature graduates and it seems that having had children and not being a 'maternity risk' may actually be a bonus.

Loads of lawyers are resentful over pay because they believe themselves to be worth £££££££ but if, like me, you are earning average wages, then law wages seem fine. Never going to be rich but, still, fine to get by.

I really love law and think it is a very useful life skill. On my course we also had big grad recruiters trying to get Law grads for .eg. BP, Standard Life, etc. so if you do the course you are likely to be making yourself more employable in general.

Another one here saying don't do it....

Unless you are brilliant, you will probably not get a TC straight away and will have to work as a paralegal. If you do get a TC, expect to be beasted. (The first week of my TC involved working 60 hours straight without a break or sleep. This was not even in the City). If you want to earn decent money then you will need to go down the commercial route, as others have said. However, the partners will own you, and most won't make allowances for your family life. If you want to work PT, kiss goodbye to ever getting promoted.

My DH is a consultant in the NHS and we both hope that any DC's we have avoid law like the plague. His hours are much more convivial and family friendly than mine. It is actually depressing to find out how much lawyers in smaller firms earn.

The root of all of the problems mentioned on this thread is the massive oversupply of lawyers over the last 10 years or so. BPL, the CoLaw etc do not take into account the diminishing number of training contracts when considering how many places to offer, which is nuts imo. That is the main differentiator with other careers mentioned on here - the outlook for lawyers is pretty darn bleak.

(I went to Law School with a former hairdresser who had failed the GDL initially and then went on to fail the LPC twice. They just kept on taking her cash for re-sits even though it was bloody obvious that her chances of a training contract were about zero.)

That said, the PP who mentioned the GLS might be onto something. Whatever you do, do not let that final salary pension go!

The main barriers if getting a training contract but you work for the civil service so could you not get a trainee solicitor contract with them once you finish the LPC? I would look into that. Both my daughters have qualified in the last few years and I even 30 years on still adore law and make quite a bit of money at it - I work for myself now. At 18 I decided commercial law was more fun and better paid as legal aid even then was badly paid!! So choose your area of law carefully. pick one where you may well earn £100k. The hours can be long - one of my children called at 8.15pm last night just leaving work (Saturday) and has worked something like 4 of the last 7 weekends (no overtime but £100k pay). The other is an in house lawyer and her hours are shorter and still pretty good pay for the early days £65k - London.

I think law is brilliant, highly paid, well respected, intellectually satisfying and if you're fairly bright and hard working it makes a great career. The hardest barrier though is getting a training contract. Even 30+ years ago when I was graduating in another recession and top of my year with prizes at university I stll had to make over 100 applications to firms. In a sense that's why it's good - most people fail so the very few who can get through the barriers earn more than if we were applying for cleaning jobs when most of us could indeed do the work. If I were you I would look at if the fact you work for the civil service means when you come to get a training contract they would take you on just to qualify and then move out and also look at if there is any government scheme to pay your LPC and GDL fees. The big firms pay your LPC and GDL fees and living costs so law school costs nothing if you apply at the right time and meet their criteria -that applied to one of my daughters.

My second daughter said she was one of the youngest on the GDL course by the way - lots of older people on it.

I think when doing the sums it's always worth working out a per hour rate.

100k a year sounds good but 60 hour weeks and weekend working make the per hour rate considerably less attractive than the headline figure suggests.

Not so much in an anybody is mad to even consider it type sense, just go in with your eyes wide open.

Please do not waste your life!
I gave up 12 years ago after 15 years as a "Private Client" solicitor specialising in probate/tax/ conveyancing and I have NEVER looked back.
I reached a managerial role but I felt the stress, drudgery and pressure were not worth my average salary.
I did some locum work for a few years, which I enjoyed. As a locum, there is some freedom and less pressure of responsibility, but the expectations of clients are always difficult to manage when everyone wants everything done right now, and some will not listen, some will not read the paperwork!
I was verbally abused, eg told to "look over my shoulder for the rest of my life" after a late key release of all things, and knives were pulled in reception several times. All in a quiet seaside town in the South West!!
I myself would not return to the law, ever - especially now I have small children. My life now would be unmanageable without a huge salary to cover childcare and transport cost at the least.
My health has suffered to this day ( I never slept on a Sunday night for worrying about work in the morning), and I wish I had chosen a more creative path as the work can be quite repetitive. I appreciate that this may of course be the case with other jobs though!
This is only my experience, of course - perhaps I was jaded! I still would not return to the law or advise my children to train as solicitors. I am glad I left as I now have a better quality of life in so many ways.

The GLS training contracts are massively oversubscribed and not a soft option.

Going against the grain slightly here as I do enjoy my job most of the time. The money is good - trainees in my firm start on just under 40k and qualify onto around 60k. But that is the City, and the hours CAN be pretty tough (although not always as bad as people think). I also didn't find it that hard to get a training contract, but I was in my 20s with good academics and I interview well.

I would say that for you the biggest downside is likely to be the shock of suddenly having absolutely no seniority. Law firms are very hierarchical and you will be taking orders from people a lot younger than you, who are probably less experienced and less bright than you. Initially, you may not be given very interesting work and, depending on the department, a lot of it can be drudgy admin stuff while you are a trainee/newly qualified. The culture of law firms can be very old-school as well, probably not as civilised as the civil service. As you get more experienced, you get a lot more pressure put on you and there is a dash for partnership, which you have to be very determined, talented and connected to get.

The GDL/LPC is also mega-tedious, just hoops to jump through and nothing like being at university.

Could you try and swap departments in the civil service or something? In your position I don't think I would leave.

I don't have great things to say about working as a lawyer either. I would suggest looking at possible sideways moves (HR?) and/or OU/pt law courses so you can keep your options open.

I agree that GLS contracts are hard to get but in my experience the playing field tends to be more level in terms of being older and having wider background experience then the standard law degree law school approach. They're quite strict on recruitment procedures, everyone gets exactly the same opportunity to succeed regardless of background. That was the impression I was left with anyway.

On salaries there is obviously a huge range and a public sector lawyer is unlikely to earn as much as a private city lawyer or an in house lawyer in a large commercial organisation. Ex colleagues have recently left to go into the private sector (largish firms but not magic circle) on 3 figures so I suppose that's the comparison I was making.

The department I worked for was particularly well paid because of its specialist nature but I know that other government lawyers would earn less than that. I took a pay cut to move to my current role but as someone saI'd up thread you've got to weigh the pay against the hours you work.

I work for a top 20 law firm and I would say a firm no. I am guessing you currently work in HR and I would encourage you to get closer to any external lawyers you use and ask to spend time in the environment. Law is a well worn path with rapidly diminishing rewards.
I would encourage you to think outside of the box and look at what experience ( and importantly contacts) you have now and look at how you can leverage those . Could you work with a union you currently have links with? Could you be employed by a law firm in their hr function and train on the job? If you are not in hr same process applies.

In her case I would try the GLS training contract route if possible but also of course big commercial firms too and don't forget dates. They recruit at least 3 years before you start so the firms can pay your GDL and LPC fees so sort out your timings for applications etc. Don't rule out working for yourself ultimately as I do. You keep all the money and it's fun.

OP, can you tell us a bit more about you? Why do you want to become a lawyer? Is it money? Job options?

I went back because I really love, love law and wanted to have a knowledge of it. I think that the benefit of that shouldn't be overlooked. I also ignored MN advice and an infamous MN thread from when I was applying. I wasn't the OP or a poster but, clearly, there is a lot of disillusionment with the law.

Another GLS lawyer here. Training contracts are tough to get externally but they are blind to age etc. However many departments do run training contracts for existing staff which is how I got mine. Saying that Tsol in particular has thousands of legally qualified admin staff just waiting for a training contract.

One thing to also consider is that there's a massive drive to move non essential staff out of central London. So your physical location may be a factor.

I love what I do and I'm paid in excess of 60k for it. I pick and chose my hours, work flexibly and at home and am very aware that I am very lucky. Friends are either earning 250k plus in the city or 25k in a small firm. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground!

In terms of figures being mentioned, I am 6 years pqe, I earn £39k and I work in London private practice. It's a good salary but i'm not exactly rolling in it!

I have a friend who works for thE GLS, she does enjoy it, and it is certainly an area I'd recommend you consider but she is still overworked like most solicitors (& most other professions I supect)

By the way Moobie not all lawyers are disillusioned. DH loves his job and is incredibly fulfilled by it. Long hours, yes, but even as a senior associate (he's now partner) he was able to dictate a lot of his hours to give him a modicum of flexibility when needed. He's always worked in a magic circle firm.

AddToBasket I'm sorry you think that thread was infamous - I was one of the posters who discouraged the OP then and not only do I think I was right - I think I have been made even more right by the near-abolition of legal aid.

Bean Tsol has only just over a thousand staff all told so I think you are exaggerating - but yes, a lot of their admin. people are hoping for a training contract in the GLS or anywhere. It is sad.

This is an interesting, if slightly depressing thread.

I have a thread up at the moment where I am considering an OU law degree, as I am currently not working due to ill health. I am fully aware that even if I complete it, as a 40 something year old disabled person, my career opportunities will be limited.

I don't want to hijack but thought it might be useful for OP too, are there any other positions other than solicitor, to aim towards with a law degree? The magistrate idea was interesting.