School uniform

[notnaice]

Yet again our school is talking about clamping down on uniform.

They issue warnings that students will be sent home if skirts are too short etc, some people buy the correct style/length. The school tries to enforce it, other parents refuse to cooperate and also moan on facebook etc, leaving the kids whose parents try to cooperate, looking uncool or parents out of pocket, when they too end up going back to non regulation bits of uniform.

Aibu to think, I'm not going to bother trying to send my kids in the correct uniform if they don't actually enforce it, as they say they will, when parental backlash makes it difficult for them?
We live in a naice area and this is one of the best schools in the city by the way. So it's parents thinking their little johnny/Joanna should be allowed to express themselves rather than any other reason.

I wish we could adopt the stance taken Germany etc where there is no uniform. It is interesting that this does not affect German children's educational attainment or attitudes to employment

We don't have school uniforms anywhere here either. My kids state school still somehow manages to excel in academics and turn out really nice kids.

Maybe because the teachers get to focus on teaching rather than patrolling uniforms (or judging packed lunches...)

I went to a high school with no uniform. I was deeply uncool but tried to be fashionable, but always got everything slightly wrong. Hand knitted mohair jumpers, not quite the right colour stonewashed jeans, the wrong style of ankle boot etc. etc.

I was sniggered at and marginalised by my more fashionable classmates. I would have loved a uniform to slightly level the playing field.

I'm all for uniforms, but only where there is the leniency to have logo free.
Our primary school has just changed uniform to a colour you can only get with logos, meaning a huge bill for parents. They changed mid school year too, so we had already shelled out in September for the old uniform, then in February we had to buy the new one. To say we were not impressed is putting it mildly!

We don't have uniforms here either TG. I hate school uniforms. Somehow my son managed to get a job and wear the required uniform.

They did have dress codes, but they were loose... and enforced. The way one school enforced it was that either the parent could bring appropriate clothes and stay until the student changed or the student wore clothes that the office had for the purpose which were very obvious that that is what they were for and happened to look a lot like school uniforms. The kids generally avoided either consequence.

Oh and IME despite going to schools with uniforms I found that they never levelled any playing fields.

I would have loved a uniform to slightly level the playing field

Right, because what the OP describes is uniforms levelling the playing field... oh... hang on...

We received a 3 page letter from a parent on this very subject today. Don't do that unless you're confident you can do better than the 4c our deputy head gave it

I love a school where a simple (cheap) uniform is properly enforced. Our school and the one my DC go to has all the basics from Tesco etc and a jumper or sweatshirt with the school logo. Our is £6, my DC's £38

notnaice I don't support the school ( in this instance) because I don't agree with its stance on uniform. It is the same with any petty rules that seem to be based on the notion that if teachers relaxed control for an instant, there would be lord of the flies style anarchy. From what I have seen, my DCs and their friends are bright, interested in learning and self motivated. I think the chances of the school descending into chaos are pretty slight.

I do not understand why any parents don't just buy the correct uniform for their children. Why would you set them up for confrontation with staff all day??? Why???

It's cheap, practical and they all look the same. It's readily available and makes life easier during the week.

Bonkers.

And for whist it is worth, I remember my neighbour ( a senior teacher in a very successful school) being delighted that they had no dress code or rules about hair colour etc because it meant that she could focus on teaching and not on enforcing pointless rules.

If rules are enforced properly notquite, you actually have to spend very little time enforcing them. It's when it's inconsistent, as Op describes, that it becomes a big distraction.

No but the whole business of 'enforcing rules' that do not relate directly to teaching and learning and are mot related to keeping DCs safe, creates a very unhelpful dynamic within a school.

When I was looking at prep schools for my DCs in London, one of the most impressive had a fantastic track record of getting scholarships at senior schools, happy and enthusiastic children and 2 rules ' be kind and don't run in the corridors'.

The arguments can go round and round all day but where I work, the teaching has improved no end since the uniform was tightened up. Without uniform or with a lax uniform, you're always dealing with things that go missing or get damaged and with arguments about who's got the best or naffest clothes.

The view of my 14 year old friend...they don't care what I think or whether I'm learning anything, all they go on about is what I wear, because the only thing the school cares about is image.
Sums it up, really

Schools need to learn to pick their battles.

The school my DDs go to does not allow high heels, skinny/low slung/crotch-between-the-knees trousers or bum skimming skirts. Those are red lines.

However, they do allow pretty much any footwear, as long as it is plain black and has no high heels. My DDs can wear their fake vans from Shoe Zone to school and no-one bats an eyelid. And they last a hell of a lot longer than the posh school shoes from Clarks they had before. They are allowed dyed hair, as long as the colours are naturally occurring. Dip dye is allowed within that framework. They are allowed painted nails and nail art, wild socks and makeup.

All of which means they can be individuals but still look smart, and at the same time teachers don't have to do a stupid amount of uniform policing.

We had OFSTED this week - I hope the school won't be pulled up on showing common sense on uniform...

Without uniform or with a lax uniform, you're always dealing with things that go missing or get damaged and with arguments about who's got the best or naffest clothes

These happen with uniform too.

As a parent I find lost property much easier to deal with now we have no uniform. I just go through the lost property pile and pull out our stuff. My kids don't tend to accidentally walk off with other kids' clothes or PE gear because it's not all identical.

Where I live, ( london borough) the better the school, the stricter the unform policy. Shirts, blazers and ties are being brought back everywhere too.

YANBU. If the school has rules about uniforms, then the parents should do their best to comply.

On the broader issue of uniforms, I think they're a good idea. Stops competitiveness or bullying over clothes, or kids wasting time in the morning trying on six different outfits.

It also gives schools a bit of a public identity and pupils the idea that they're identified with their school when out and about in uniform.

Oh, uniform and litter ... the two eternal obsessions of headteachers.

I don't know why there is this strange thing about copying public school uniform styles. The best solution to this issue I ever came across was a school where the uniform code was "work-wear". Most days the work-wear was set as smart, so the pupils had to come to school dressed in a manner they would dress if they were going to work in a professional environment, but there were also days when the code would be "casual workwear" (open necked shirt and trousers etc), "site workwear" (jeans, trainers/boots, fleece etc) or "lab workwear" (so something that would be comfortable under a lab coat).

The concept taught the children how different working environments required different clothing, and how to put an outfit together from what you already had. It also meant that "rules" had meaning (no jewelry on site work-wear day etc) and weirdly ensured you never got designer competition as the point was to dress according to the day's concept. It also meant that the smart work-wear could be anything so long as it looked smart and tidy.

The school, incidentally, wasn't in Britain.

Lertgush, but when there isn't uniform the "missing" stuff is just as often stolen as lost, so it never turns up in lost property . No point stealing a cardi that's exactly the same as yours, a sweater with the right brandname however....

It's not that it goes missing that's the issue, it's the fuss and accusations it causes when it does. A child who doesn't have much designer stuff and has saved for ages for something that they really shouldn't have worn to school but everyone else does, gets it stolen and the heartbreak (yes heartbreak) it causes takes a massive amount of staff time.

You're not going into rummage through lost property for your DC at a secondary, are you?

My bottom line though. Schools are really open about their uniform policy, so why would you choose a school where the policy is so much at odds with your own ideals?

Nice to see people are laughing at a pupil being incredibly rude to a HT. Highlights why so many of my hard working and talented colleagues are leaving teaching. At the end of the day when you applied for a place at that school you knew what the uniform rules were. Of all the issues I face as a teacher, parents not supporting the school is the one that makes my job most difficult.

Lertgush, but when there isn't uniform the "missing" stuff is just as often stolen as lost, so it never turns up in lost property . No point stealing a cardi that's exactly the same as yours, a sweater with the right brandname however

Not my experience at all. We've never had anything stolen at our non-uniform school.

OTOH when we were at a school with uniform, it was being stolen regularly, presumably because someone lost their own cardy so the easiest solution was to nick someone else's.

You're not going into rummage through lost property for your DC at a secondary, are you

Oh - just read this. Where we are, school isn't divided into primary and secondary. But my kids are at middle school and yes I do rummage through lost property there. I'll probably also rummage through it at high school too.

As I said before, in our school uniform was not a social leveller AT ALL. And uniform items got stolen.

Pretty much the only uniform my son has ever worn at school was a sports one, one for PE and one for a sports team. He has had items stolen for each. His team mates stole his speedos and team towel, even though they had their number on them. Eventually I wrote big permanent pen letters inside front and back and embroidered (with sewing machine) his name front and back so they were easy to spot. I also embroidered in several places on his team shirt. After that only his towel went missing. He found one of his team mates using it at a meet so took it back and left the boy without a towel! Kids took each other's gear because they lost theirs under the stands or someone else took theirs.

I read an article once about some of the strictest uniform policies in Japan. These girls had everything identical... bags, coats, shoes etc the only thing they were allowed to personalise was a tiny tiny logo on the top of their identical socks. Apparently some expensive fashion houses caught on and made designer socks. The kids of course noticed who was wearing what label on their socks.

At our school even when kids wore identical uniforms you could still absolutely tell and kids noticed. Who's family could afford more sets of uniform so they looked less worn half way through the year. Who's family bought all of the different navy skirts on offer so you didn't have to wear the same style every day but had four or five to choose from. Who's family could afford to buy new clothes if their kid had a growth spurt and who wore slightly too short trousers. Who had a fancy back pack and who had a tesco one. Who had expensive trainers for P.E. and who had cheap ones. Who had a ski pass still attached to their winter coat...