not to want to help take DS's class swimming next week?

[CocktailQueen]

Volunteered to help take DS's class swimming as a parent helper. Most of the class is lovely but a few of the boys are just a nightmare - constantly talking, never listening, fooling around getting changed, etc., so all my time is taken up by chivvying them along and none is left for all the lovely kids who are getting on with it and not being a PITA.

They have NO respect for adults - the teacher or I will ask them to be quiet and literally a second later they'll be making bonkers noises or chatting again or towel flicking or whatever - gahhhhh.

I had a headache after swimming today! Have done 8 weeks out of 10. WIBU to tell the teacher I don't want to volunteer next week - and why? Or would I be being a wuss? Or WIBU to speak to the teacher about their behaviour??

I ran an after-school club that was over-subscribed by 300% most terms, so anyone that didn't see the point of the few basic rules we had got a couple of warnings and then told that they no longer had a place.
I had several lively discussions with parents who thought it was totally unreasonable. Didn't change things, just let me see where some of the attitudes had originated.
Some chidren need the opportunity to learn that the behaviour allowed at home wasn't the way of the world, and many really did take the first warning to heart and make an effort.

Having done the swimming helper thing for year 3 myself, I totally know what you're on about. The boys behaved so badly I was fighting, screaming, running around naked, nicking each others clothes, and zero respect for any of the adults there. I always had the swimming rota headache afterwards, and always had at tea time afterwards. We had a rota, so only did once every few weeks - but I was so relieved when it was over. It does put you off volunteering at the school. The teacher would come in an shout every now and again - but as a parent volunteer, I didn't feel able to do that. So you end up looking pathetically incompetent when a teacher has to come in and take control.

I'd probably push on through the next 2 weeks and then tell them you won't be doing it anymore, and tell them why. Or, if you're feeling bolshy, tell them you won't be doing the next 2 weeks, and tell them why, now.

Why are the teachers / TA's leaving you with the rowdy ones? Tell them you're only happy to continue if they manage the boisterous ones themselves (they shouldn't actually need telling, it's downright cheeky to fob them off on you).

YANBU
The teacher should be with these boys all the time while you help the children with being organised etc. (They always lose their socks). It's a situation where every act of silliness has to be clamped down on otherwise they go into the swimming lesson very hyped up. Have you discussed your fedupness with the teacher? I have taken children swimming many times while I was a full time teacher and I know it is PITA. The upside is the chatting on the bus and getting to know the children better. For some kids this is a really exciting event every week (I'm not joking or being patronising). You are doing a really valuable job but you shouldn't have the sole responsibility for supervising the 'naughty' boys while they get changed.

Well done solitary. Hopefully it makes some of them realise that not everyone is willing to put up with their shitty behaviour.

I totally agree with you, Solitary!! Often the most - erm, entitled - mothers have the worst-behaved dc.

For people who missed my updated earlier, I spoke to the teacher today, named the worst kids, said I won't be in next week, said I want to help but just didn't enjoy it yesterday, said they don't listen or respect me so I'm going to do something more worthwhile with my time. She said she didn't blame me, thanked me for my help and said she understood my decision.

There is no HIDEOUS behaviour - fighting, hiding clothes etc. - but constant low-level ignoring and not doing as they're told. Bloody wearing.

Not possible to separate kids into cubicles - girls in one big room, boys in another.

Thanks, Silence, sounds like you had a similar experience!

Well done Cocktail. It's best to let the teachers know why you are pulling out of volunteering rather than just being unavailable from now on. Hopefully they address the problem rather than let it continue with another poor helper.

UPDATE: just picked DS up from school and I'm furious. DS said the teacher took ALL the boys out today and talked to them all, saying that I had told her I don't want to take them swimming next week and saying she's humiliated that they have behaved so badly.

BUT it wasn't ALL the boys!! It was two of them! What sort of message is that sending? Is it just me, or has she dealt with that badly? Oh, FFS.

Perhaps it's so if they behave badly next week, she can then say "you all had a warning"

Did DS get stick?

No that he's said.... But that's not ideal either! AM sure some boys will go home saying 'DS mum said we were all naughty' and that's just not true!

Not sure what to do now - whether to talk to the teacher again or not!

I don't think you are unreasonable at all to not want to continue doing something that you are not enjoying. I don't think it is unreasonable to say that it is hard work doing the job you have been doing because of the way a few are behaving.

I do think you are unreasonable saying that kids are lovely and nightmares.

I have a 'nightmare' kid. He also has an IEP because the things you describe are very difficult for him to control for various reasons. He was the kid who wasn't invited to birthday parties in primary school and had problems making friends. He is now at another school and as a teen is working very hard on his behaviour with plenty of help from the school and is doing very well. He is now the kid who gets invited places and parents tell me that they are glad my son is their kid's friend because he is kind and compassionate and fun to be around. They would not have said that in year three.

Do you have any idea why the 'nightmare' boys are not 'lovely'? It may be that their parents have been lacking, it may be they are immature, it may be that they have a disability, it may be that they are over excited and don't handle transitions well. It may be that they are still young children learning how to behave and need compassion and firm guidance rather than judgement.

Spoony, my DS has AS and romping, immature boys with no understanding or respect for others were the same that used to push him into meltdown again and again with their antics.
Yes they are ony 7 or 8, but knowing it's time to stop when asked politely and clearly should not be beyond the majority, unless they have a disability that hinders that understanding. In which case, the teacher should be responsible for their management.

They're all still young children learning to behave, Selfconfessed, but some are just brattier than others.

Maybe their parents are lacking or they have a disability?. Oh please

If children are encouraged to develop good manners and respect for each other, that can only be to the good, surely?

"They're all still young children learning to behave"

and some do better at that than others, just as some do better at maths or sports or whatever else. Some take longer learning to read and some take longer learning to behave appropriately. If the teacher knows s/he has a couple of ones who are likely to struggle with appropriate behaviour then she should be there to facilitate.

"If children are encouraged to develop good manners and respect for each other, that can only be to the good, surely?"

Absolutely. Those kids need it more than the others. They really need it. I just don't think a parent who judges them is the one to do it.

Spoony - none of the dc have diagnosed SN. Sorry if my phrasing upset you - no offence intended. Obviously if one of the kids did have a SN the that would be different. If my DS had behaved like that, I have called him a nightmare too. Not judging in any way.

Cocktail the teacher may have approached it this way to use the group dynamic/peer pressure to help the "two" toe the line a bit more. Just telling them off may not have had the same impact - and they may well have responded "but so and so was doing it too"/

This way the two boys will probably know it was them. The rest of the boys will know it was them. It may not have been the only way to approach it but still a valid one.

IEP or not, it is unacceptable for any child to be shouting and yelling and flicking towels in the cloakroom.

I expect that the teacher did say at some point in her "lecture" that she wasn't talking to everybody and those who had misbehaved "know who they are," but that message can sometimes get lost in translation.

Cocktail, my kid wasn't diagnosed with the things that cause him to behave that way at 7/8. Plus I don't know how it works in England (we live in the U.S. now) but even the parents of my kid's best friends did not know that he had an IEP until I told them and it would be illegal for the school to share that, let alone what was in it. So here you would not know my son had documented SN. At 7/8 he often appeared like a 'naughty boy' and was treated that way.

Frankly I think it was completely unreasonable for the school to expect a parent to handle 15 7/8 year old boys in such an unstructured environment.

And yes, I agree that children flicking towels and being rowdy is unacceptable. I don't think lecturing the class is a good way to handle it.

OP, YANBU.

The teacher has dealt with this very badly - it is incredibly bad practice to blame a whole group for trouble caused by one or two, and to bring your name into it is worse and could cause trouble for your DS. At the very least she is doing something that will eventually lead to resentment.

I think you said she is NQ? In which case it could be that she just tried to take the easy way out, which would fit in with the general bad behaviour she ahs allowed to develop and continue. She sounds frightened to address the few that are causing trouble, preferring to "blame" everyone.

Clearly the way a few boys were behaving was unacceptable, and itis their behaviour that needs to be addressed directly. Do you feel able to ask to meet her and to explain how her actions have backfired and could cause difficulty for you and your DS?

I have listened to and read a bunch of material from Dr Ross Greene lately. His position is that if a child is being well motivated/rewarded to behave well and wants to behave well (and in his extensive experience that is almost always the case deep down even with the most challenging kids exhibiting very anti-social behaviours) then if they are not behaving well then it is because they are missing a vital skill set that they either need to learn or need to learn how to compensate for. Telling kids off does not help them learn this. Neither does saying "they shouldn't do this". Treating them like bratty kids doesn't help them learn what they need to learn to stop them doing it.

We all want them to stop doing those behaviours and we all think they are unacceptable. But there is more than one way to approach it.

I have been that parent who is sick of dealing with the behaviours of others and have decided to volunteer my time in other ways. I completely understand where Cocktail is coming from.