not to want to help take DS's class swimming next week?

[CocktailQueen]

Volunteered to help take DS's class swimming as a parent helper. Most of the class is lovely but a few of the boys are just a nightmare - constantly talking, never listening, fooling around getting changed, etc., so all my time is taken up by chivvying them along and none is left for all the lovely kids who are getting on with it and not being a PITA.

They have NO respect for adults - the teacher or I will ask them to be quiet and literally a second later they'll be making bonkers noises or chatting again or towel flicking or whatever - gahhhhh.

I had a headache after swimming today! Have done 8 weeks out of 10. WIBU to tell the teacher I don't want to volunteer next week - and why? Or would I be being a wuss? Or WIBU to speak to the teacher about their behaviour??

Sunny, I wouldn't tolerate that sort of behaviour and never have in school swimming lessons. Chatting yes, ignoring an adult talking to them and arsing around no. Not from either gender.

well fair enough it needs dealing with, as ever, but being surprised that boys arse about? That is why you need tough people who can kick ass - metaphorically speaking of course -

Communicate with the school teachers and the swimming teacher.
Perhaps there needs to be a re think of how to tackle the changing.
Do the last two weeks,and invest some time in improving the logistics to better manage poor behaviour,as a legacy for the next group.

I think you need to create a challenge. In triathlon getting changed efficiently is an art. Get them to think about how they can get changed the fastest. Get a sand timer- beat the sand timer and you pick the music on the coach to school.

Op didn't sound surprised to me, more a bit pissed-off at the behaviour and unwilling to tolerate it. But without any consequences at her disposal, and not being in charge, there's not much she can do. The teacher needs to step up and sort it out.

Those of you that are suggesting that they be allowed to mess about.
It sets the scene for horseplay in the swimming lesson,and presents the swimming teacher with a problem -its a potentially dangerous environment and there are precious few lessons,with a short length,and high expectations.They do not need to be going into the lesson thinking its playtime and a bit of a laugh.

I'd talk to the teacher, tell them how fed up you are and say you will do the last two weeks on condition s/he swaps you and does duty in the changing room. That's clearly the least enjoyable bit and it seems unfair you've been stuck with it every time - plus the teacher should be stepping up to sort out the less compliant kids, not leaving it to a volunteer. That's the way to lose volunteers. But I would say something now, so there is a chance to correct things.

AFAIK teachers are not even allowed in changing rooms.

but yes it sounds as though the teacher is relying too much on parent volunteers and their goodwill.

I think the teacher well knows they'll misbehave and is choosing to leave you with them. s/he should be with the tricky ones. Tell s/he that you'll only continue if you can do a different role.

It's not your responsibility to be setting behaviour management boundaries - from your OP it sounds like the teacher is struggling to manage behaviour and FWIW, as someone who works in education I think it's massively unacceptable to be expecting you to handle children they themselves can't.

As a volunteer, you cannot (and should not) be doing anything other than enforcing the existing school behaviour guidelines - the students will know full well you have no clout to carry out any sanctions, so there's no way you can be expected to manage their behaviour without strong guidelines and support from the paid teaching staff. (I don't mean you're not capable, only that it's not within a volunteer remit)

From what you describe, I think you're totally justified in sacking it off. But if you did want to continue, I would suggest asking to meet with the teacher, highlight your issue, and request guidance on the school's behaviour management policy - gently but firmly put the responsibility back with them!

I'm not an expect, but I also think being a lone adult in the changing room without a member of teaching staff is not good safeguarding practice. I deliver workshops in schools and am fully DBS checked, and teachers wander out of the room all the time (I fully understand they have more than enough to do, and the value of some child-free time!) but technically, in terms of my insurance and probably the school's safeguarding they shouldn't be leaving me alone. So if you wanted to be super vigilant you can ask them to confirm their policies there too.

Bottom line, as a volunteer, you shouldn't be feeling this stressed, it's not fair on you!

Sunny - Of course teachers are allowed in changing rooms! Who else would supervise the dc? They are DBS/CRB checked, just like parent volunteers.

Re safeguarding - I can't be in a changing room with one child - I have to wait outside. More than one child, fine.

I had a word with the teacher today and said exactly how I feel and told her just which dc I meant. She said she quite understood, and said she didn't blame me, and said she'd been v disappointed with the kids' behaviour yday and had told them so when they got back to school. But some of them just don't care. They're Year 3.

All boys in one communal room, all girls in another. When they're ready they take their stuff out and line up on a bench and put their stuff in a locker and wait till the pool is ready. Teacher has to be out there to supervise them while parent helper is with slower kids in changing rooms.

And it's not the majority of boys - this is not a gender thing! There are 15. MOST of the boys in the class are lovely, chatty, yet listen and can do as they're told. There are just a few who can't. And they take up all the teacher's/adult's time and it's not fair. The ones who behave well are ignored.

Teacher is an NQT, but TA is experienced.

I think I have taken all this to heart too much, but still - I've given up 18 hours of my life that I could have been doing something nicer with, to take this class swimming. The least the kids can do is respect parent helpers. And breathe.....

"Sunny - Of course teachers are allowed in changing rooms"
well they certainly were not in the junior school my children attended, that is why they were hotbeds of vile behaviour and bullying, Same at my friend's kid's school.

Are there any individual cubicles nearby that the disruptive children could use to split them up?

No individual ones nearby, no. I do like the idea of getting the disruptive boys out 5 mins earlier - they're always last to be ready, and I do think a punishment is in order. Not my place to suggest it, though...

I was just going to suggest what Teen did, I used to do the swim run but the children were year 3 and 4. All year 3 went into the communal changing room and year 4 went 2 each into a cubicle. They were on the swim run together.

We ended up with a year 3 girl so distracted that she was last to get changed every week and we had a system whereby the coach had to go back to school to collect the next set of swimmers (3 lots) so we were limited on time.

We put her into a cubicle by herself, not as a punishment but so that she wasn't chatting.

Re the chatting, I used to just hold the door open with my foot to the communal changing (you couldn't see in as there was a wall) so you could hear any arguments and would poke my head in to check progress. Chatting was fine as long as they were dressing.

We would separate any kids messing around. I loved the swim run.

My standard line was "do you want to miss part of your playtime?" that would bring them in line.

Also splitting them up from queueing together or sitting together on the bus/coach.

Of course it's your place to suggest it, it's only a suggestion

I see no problem with making the suggestion about getting out of pool early as consequence of being late getting ready the prior week. Its only a suggestion, though a sensible one.

Yes, of course teachers are allowed in the changing rooms. You're wrong there, sunny.
But certain sensible guidelines need to be followed, in order to protect the member of staff from possible allegations. And safeguard children too.
If teachers weren't trusted in the changing rooms, then who would be?

well I can assure that at my childrens junior school teachers did not enter the changing rooms of the pool, ever, as policy.

Some of you guys are making her sound crazy for thinking its rude and unruly to not respect your elders and be loud in public. Of course you can have a chat but i know exactly what she's speaking about - i experience it all the time! Rude naughty loud foul mouthed kids who see school as playtime 24/7 to be as naughty as possible and wreak havoc! No im not being dramatic I've worked in a school. This country is changing in terms of whats acceptable and whats not. When you come out of the pool walk to the changing room, get dressed quietly and quickly, get into pairs and walk back to school safely. Its unsafe to make loads of noise and misbehave and have the people who are meant to be taking care of you running around like a blue arsed fly!

Well done you for helping out at school. You are probably very necessary. I would stick it out for 2 more weeks but then let it go.

My friend does the same thing on a Tuesday for our school - year 5/6 class. That are just about getting to the age when their hormones are kicking in and are difficult.

I hope it isn't my friend who is the OP and I hope it isn't my ds who is naughty!

I'd be pissed off with that too. Sounds like more than just the using chatting /mucking about which you expect to a degree.

I have helped out with an activity at the primary school - just parent helpers, no teachers present. Lots of chatting through instructions/ not listening etc. That's fine to begin with - exciting to be out the classroom - but really disrespectful/rude once they've been asked to stop. At the end of the session the kids handed their equipment back (some just threw it back in our direction) and not one said thank you! I know they are just kids but what went through my mind was "ungrateful little so-and-sos". I was about to march off to the teacher to complain but one of the other parents had got there first. The following week was better.
It does put you off volunteering though - why put up with that shit? But then the kids who can behave then lose out.