"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

Disabled people get pulled into these threads because they are lumped into the same group as those who sponge off the system.

I genuinely only ever see that happening from posters to the left of this debate.

Just about everyone else completely supports disabled people getting the support they need, to the point that it pretty much goes without saying as it's so obvious.

The benefits system is so large that it's easy to be able to wholeheartedly support one part of it while disagreeing with another part.

DH's cousin has made it her lifestyle choice. Pregnant by choice at 16. At 18 moved out, with her toddler, of her parent's small house into her own completely refurbished (new kitchen, bathroom and carpets) 2 bed semi in a decent suburb. Rent totally covered by benefits. Bills paid by benefits.

She was allowed free use of a college creche so she could complete a 'child care' course, despite saying she had no intention of ever working in childcare.

At 19 she was provided with financial assistance to buy and run a car due to her having had SPD. A painful ailment but one that might be managed more successfully if she wasn't clearly at least 4 stone overweight?

At 20 she became pregnant again. A conscious choice. Asked to be transferred to another house nearer her parents. New house was in an even nicer suburb. Better garden and brand new kitchen. Her car was recently exchanged for a newer model and a 2012 plate.

She's now 22. Has never worked a single day and is talking about a third baby next year 'because she always wanted 3 children'.

She is sickening.

I do think that one cause of the vast increase in smug stupid people is the way in which any kind of arts/media job is now (and has been for nearly a decade) almost impossible to get unless you have well-off parents. Entry-level work in radio/TV/newspapers is now a matter of longterm unpaid 'internships' which are simply not feasible if you come from a poor family. Therefore pretty much everyone working on newspapers/magazines/TV programmes/radio shows is upper/middle class and considers that the world is divided into people ie those like themselves and their mates, and feral alien scum who need to be punished, contained and controlled.

ptolemy, disabled people aren't getting the support they need, you need to educate yourself a bit more here before you post things like this.

I'm slightly cringing here as I was finally awarded PIP late last year for my 'bad back' and 'depression' both of which seem to be subject to the wary and knowing comments about people swinging the lead'

I feel the urge to justify myself over and over, which I shouldn't but I hate the thought that I am judged for being on benefits. I worked for over 20 years until 8 years ago when I woke up in excruciating pain. I've been to physio, tried a cocktail of drugs and finally resorted to surgery which needed 6 months recovery time. Unfortunately, 3 months into that my dh had a catastrophic rta which nearly killed him and I had to take over and become the carer once he recovered enough to come home. 15 months on and he's still at home, we survive, just, on esa, tax credits and cb. No help with housing so it's not easy but we are keeping our heads above the parapet.

How anyone could live like this forever is beyond me, through choice. I would go back to work if I could but now I've got to have bits of metal put in my spine so we wait another year to see if that works.

Dh is still seeing consultants at three hospitals and we are currently fighting for private treatment through the other drivers insurance in a bid to speed things up.

Just about everyone else completely supports disabled people getting the support they need, to the point that it pretty much goes without saying as it's so obvious.

Providing they're genuinely disabled of course

The benefits system is so large that it's easy to be able to wholeheartedly support one part of it while disagreeing with another part.

True, but it's all too common that the people who disagree with parts of the welfare system are making judgments based on really bad misinformation.

butterfly

Having to "justify" yourself over and over is a poor state of affairs.

At 19 she was provided with financial assistance to buy and run a car due to her having had SPD. A painful ailment but one that might be managed more successfully if she wasn't clearly at least 4 stone overweight?

Financial assistance from who?

And for the record SPD had nothing to do with weight. I have had it for 19 years. The heaviest I have been during that time is 8stone 11. I gave birth to DS2 that day. I'm 7stone 8 right now, awaiting my 6 the major op in 9 years, am in absolute agony, am often in tears due to the pain and can not walk unaided.

You sound quite jealous and resentful of a woman with a very painful disabilty tbh.

'These problems are indeed a cycle and a social problem'

Yet financial help in form of benefits, reducing stigma and educational approaches haven't broken this cycle, have they?
The system is still being abused and we still have generations of people raising kids who can't afford to house or feed them, some of whom can't even figure out how to provide kids with a healthy diet using their benefits money.
This suggests a different approach is needed to break the cycle, otherwise how will the next generation learn? By replacing benefits money with vouchers for healthy groceries (that can't be used for luxury items like cigarettes, alcohol, high-fat/ high-calorie foods) parents will have more incentive to work for luxuries, and will learn to prepare healthy meals (instead of wasting money on junk-food and contributing to obesity crisis.) Until parents are forced to set a better example to kids, nothing will change.

Did I say her SPD was caused by her weight? But I can only think her weight must exacerbate her condition?

I can assure you I am not remotely jealous of either her or her lifestyle. Mine is much nicer and I worked and studied hard for every bit of it.

What like the milk tokens which turned into something else and have a cash value of 1.50 in corner shops that exploit them you mean?

Did I say her SPD was caused by her weight? No I didn't! I merely said it has nothing to do witn weight, her weight won't be exacerbating her condition!

You avoided saying who she got financial assistance off to buy and run a car, though.

It's already been pointed out that vouchers would probably restrict people's purchasing opportunities and would probably only be redeemable in large supermarkets. Not much use if you want to shop at markets which would probably be cheaper.

Until parents are forced to set a better example to kids, nothing will change.
You get more tolerant by the minute, theboat are you one of the tories social media team, taking into consideration you've only been on the site a couple of weeks?

Not to mention ilove that my nearest supermarket is fifteen miles away. It would cost more for those that live in rural areas to access food, it would be more time consuming and would mess up the livelihoods of local shops who often rely on local people to purchase from them. So not actually that good economically.

Dawn Butterfly

I get your point but I must be honest and say sometime it does feel like this and I know not everyone chooses to be on benefits, but some people do - and seem to have more spare money than me!

For example - someone I know has 2 sons both at primary school. Has a free house (quite a nice new build 3 small 3 bed), gets her house paid for her and some bills, had nursery free from when they were 2, gets tax credits or whatever it is and obviously doesn't work. Her partner (the dad) only works a few hours a week, gets offered to work more all the time, and turns down work as it will mess there benefits up.

They are always going on holiday, away for weekends, out with fiends, To festivals, music concerts etc.. And I just think how the fuck can you do that?

Can be annoying to those that work, but don't want to work as want to bring up kids but can't as would not get any help at all and some people can sit on arse all day when kids at school and have loads of money given to them on a plate - annoying really!

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't change my life, I have a nice home that I own etc but work hard for what I have, which after £1000 a month on nursery and then mortgage at £750 then bills, food, baby clothes and food etc you can see where this is going, mine and my husbands wages are gone with little or no luxurys!

theboat did you really Imply that dv victims who are on benefits play the victim. Fucking hell you come across like a right twat. Shame on you. Horrible nasty person.

Toopsy what bills does your neighbour get paid for her? I'm asking because I've been told a few times that because I'm on benefits I have my gas n electric paid for me. Fucking hell I wish, then I might not have holes in my boots.

The problem is that there clealry ARE people who do very nicely out of the benefits system. They know exactly how to play it, how many kids to have and how to space them. They live very well and often better than their working neighbours. Bear in mind the people living like this will be minimum wageres so for them this lifestyle is more than satisfactory.
Would I like to live on benefits in a council house? No. Because I am a professional but plenty of ill educated, unskilled people are.

We need a system that sorts the wheat firmly from the chaff. The govt is trying hard to do just that but it's difficult and some will fall through the net. Unfortunately we have absolutely no choice as Gordon Brown threw money at people who were even eraning £40 plus K a year. It was obscene. Even Labour know it needs reining in as the tide of public opinion has turned too in recent years.
Most decent, hard working folk are sick to the back teeth of seeing the long term jobless/ choice part timers with more disposable than them.
And the change is coming - Universal Benefit, CB cap, benefits cap. It's all coming and for the vast majority of decent people in the UK - they welcome it.
That may be anathema to lefties on here but it's true.

jeez, hope you are getting well paid for writing that armchairathlete....

the only people I know who live well on benefits are they couples cheating the system, living together but telling the benefits people that they live apart, mum claims single parent benefits, dad works and they pool all the money...anyone else, claiming legally and upfront is absolutely stuffed.

It's all subjective, isn't it though? As I said, the people living long term on benfits are not those who can command a decent salary. So, for THEM it IS a good lifestyle.

As the benefit cap is still at £26 K ( equivalent of a £39 K salary) I think anyone would be hard pushed to argue that was poverty, no?

I very much doubt that they do have more disposable income than you, they just get into more debt, unfortunately.

They don't have any more than me - no. But they do have far more than many as a £26 K cap clearly tells you. Tax free cap. Plus free this n that.

It's sad, but the fact that so many people deserve assistance does not mean that some don't but still take advantage. 'So many' is a vague description of scale and sounds strong, but pretending some out there don't choose to prolong a life on benefits over making a true effort to work is just as ridiculous. It happens.