AIBU to even entertain the prospect of procreation?

[karmacamellia]

Sorry this is such a massive essay! It's not funny or outrageous (sorry!) but I'd love any insight that people can provide. Please be kind!

I and my DP are both in our late twenties. We've been together six years, and have been living together for four of those. He's fantastic, I love him very much and we're really happy together. He's got a job he loves in a creative industry, I'm a barrister (which means I'm self-employed though working out of kind of practice group called a chambers). We've been thinking we should get married for a while and are now starting to make plans for next summer. And naturally, wedding plans have brought about lots of talk about the future.

It turns out that he really, REALLY wants to have children at some point. He can't imagine a future where he doesn't have kids. I'm much more ambivalent. I like children, I can imagine myself as a mother, and I know that if I had kids I'd love them and do the best I could for them.

But at the same time, I really love my job and am quite ambitious. The area of law I practice in requires extremely long hours on occasion (90 hr weeks/all nighters etc). It's very male dominated and a lot of women tend to dial things back after they have kids (which in practice means only doing lower value, less challenging work and hence falling behind in career terms).

Taking an extended time off won't be an option for me - our chambers lets mothers off rent for a year after each child, but I'd go back to work after that. My DP would not want to be a SAHP (though I'm sure we'd split maternity/paternity leave equally). Although my income does mean I could afford a nanny (and would definitely have to get one) I feel worried firstly that the stress of working this job and having small children would have a massive impact on my mental health, and secondly that having kids wouldn't be compatible with the kind of career success I want, and that if I end up having children I'd have to put things on one side and will end up not fulfilling my potential.

So honestly, even though I'm not against motherhood per se, for myself I feel more inclined not to have children than to have them. I'm so happy with my life and just don't have any particular reason to want to add children into it. The idea of two pregnancies (if we do have children I would want two rather than just one) and the physical strain of that, then two rounds of being stuck at home for a year with a tiny baby, years of sleep deprivation, and just the general stress of loving something so much and worrying about them and wanting to protect them all the time - just really fill me with dread.

I definitely don't want to start a family til I'm at least 35 (so I have a very established name/practice before taking maternity leave). But by that time there might be fertility problems. I feel like I really won't be bothered with the faff of IVF etc but again it might be something I have to go through for my DP's sake (he is insistent he wants to have his own biological children). I'm already feeling stressed out at that and the general idea of how having kids is going to work.

I'm not sure if I should just wait and cross this bridge when I come to it, or decide now that I'm not cut out for parenthood. To be clear, I would definitely not screw DP over by agreeing to marry him and then later saying I would not have kids. AIBU to just hope for the best and think that kids/career/happiness will just work out and I'll muddle through? Or would I be a terrible parent and wreck my own mental health. Should I should split up with him so he can find someone more compatible with his hopes for the future? But I love him and can't imagine not growing old with him. Has anyone been in a similar position (including if anyone has had a DH that is less keen on starting a family)? Any insights appreciated....

Have kids and have a SAHD situation?

Yeah SAHD would be ideal. But I'm not sure my DP would agree to it (as mentioned but buried in my giant post). I could say it's the only way I'd agree to having kids -- but that seems so mean and I don't think I'd approve of a man doing the same thing...

Sounds like you need to have an open and frank conversation with him really

Who's decision is it? Just be as honest with him as you have been here. He can make his own mind up.

Yes, you're right. He just can't seem to see what I'm worried about! He just takes the attitude that we'll muddle through.

Have kids, hut take v short mat leave and use a nanny? There's nothing wrong with that at all if it's what you choose.

its not mean. It would solve the issues. If he is the one that really wants kids, then its fair that he would be the one to stay at home or cut down his hours.
Or maybe you could just have one kid

You need to really discuss it with him, but talk about your REAL feelings, not just what you think doesnt sound mean,

we have talked, and he is not going to break up with me over this. He thinks we should get married anyway. But I think he just assumes that my biological clock will start ticking and he'll be fine. what I think will happen is that he'll be clear (as he has always been) that he wants kids, I'll feel to mean to deny him, but I'll find it really hard to cope. But yeah you're right that maybe there isn't a solution beyond talking it through! Thanks!

Maybe I need to be clearer with him. Actually writing this thread helped get things straight for me. I will try to present it as I have here. Thanks all x

He wouldn't have to be a complete SAHD though, just the one who dialled back on their career. Or you can afford a nanny, and you don't need to take a whole year off if you don't want to. I think really explore with him how he sees it panning out. I broke up with a significant love because I knew I definitely wanted children and he knew he definitely didn't, no possible compromise, but you don't seem to be in quite that mindset, so it seems a bit drastic at this stage.

I got pregnant by accident at 33. Its the best thing that ever happened to me. I did have a good job that I never went back to. And I don't give a stuff. My priorities changed the day I gave birth. Before then I was terrified of motherhood and being a failure at it. I hope you do have a baby and just make it work. Its such a massive decision to make I don't know how anyone ever chooses to have their first baby. Luckily fate intervened for us.

You don't have to take a year off for each baby. Lots of women go back to work after around 6 months. You sound open to the idea of having kids provided you don't have to sacrifice your career for them, which is quite different to someone who dislikes the whole idea of it. So I think your conversations with DP should focus on the point that, if he wants kids, he absolutely must be prepared to pull his weight and not expect your career to take a back seat.
your DP

Sorry I've just skimmed your post but the work situation you describe is very much what my husband and I have, but the other way round. He's the lawyer with long hrs, full time job and I'm a designer, work 3.5 days a week. I know it's more normal our way, but it works fine (actually possibly better than 2 'equal' careers? I don't know.)
So we have 2 kids and a nanny. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't have children and be the full time major earner, and accept that you will have great childcare and poss your partner could reduce his hours (but not give up work - unless he wants to) and do more of the childcare.

Yes, thanks I think that finding out how he thinks it will go is a good idea. He is quite career focused as well, so I'm not sure if he has considered that he may have to give way a bit. But I think that one of us would definitely have to - although the point about 6 month maternity leave is useful.

I think if he wants kids so much he has to make sacrifices. I suspect his unspoken assumption is that you will be the one making sacrifices. Even if you have a nanny, who is going to organise/liaise with the nanny? Please sort this out before you marry. Otherwise I can see you in 5 years time being forced to work fewer hours and take on the responsibility of your children and sorting out childcare for when you are at work.

You should try and talk to a few women in your profession that have had children and find out what arrangements they made. But you are in a good position financially to have the best of childcare and a lot of help in the house. I don't think I'd worry too much about it at the present time. Bit if you have decided that it is likely you don't want chikldren then I think you should make your partner aware of this.

i know people that have gone back to work after 6 weeks. Different families work in different ways.

I think you just have to be very clear that you feel your career will come first and you're not prepared to sacrifice that. It's very reasonable to discuss all of this first, and in your situation I might expect DH to reduce to part time for a few years, perhaps with a part time nanny. Even with great childcare you need someone to be home if the children are unwell (or if the nanny is unwell).

I have friends who are planning kids. Both barristers. I don't envy them. One is planning on trying to take a judgeship (more 9-5 hours) while the other will continue with chambers. Even then they may have a nanny. One of them had solicitor parents and she had nannies until her teens and is happy to do the same.

I will say that DH and I both work - he's an RAF pilot and I'm a director in a publishing company. His schedule is so chaotic and unreliable that I am completely the 'default' payment. I went part time; I travel abroad but have to be sparing with my trips; I usually work from home if DC are ill; I am the one who books holiday for childminders/pre-school/school. But I earn significantly less so it was an obvious choice for us. It is incredibly hard to feel I'm doing it all alone in weeks when he is away or working odd hours. (But then we can't afford a nanny which I think would be a huge help!) I don't doubt that it is tough for him to be working long, odd hours, and having to pick up the slack when he gets home too. It is certainly exhausting compared to DINKY status!

Having children wasn't a step we took lightly. But I'm only early 30s so will have a lot of working time left when DC are older/grown. DH may be retired by then anyway!

I think if he wants kids so much he has to make sacrifices. I suspect his unspoken assumption is that you will be the one making sacrifices. Even if you have a nanny, who is going to organise/liaise with the nanny? Please sort this out before you marry. Otherwise I can see you in 5 years time being forced to work fewer hours and take on the responsibility of your children and sorting out childcare for when you are at work.

I absolutely agree with this. If your fiance is the one who wants a family and you're not fussed, then I think he has to accept a huge chunk of the responsibility for making this future family work. Just because you're the one physically having the baby doesn't mean you have to be one doing the lion's share of childcare post-birth. Luckily, there is increasing equality in this area for parents, so parental leave can often be shared and I would make it crystal clear right now that if biological DC is his wish, then he has to be prepared to be the main one doing parenting duty.

I am self employed and have a much more established career compared to DH. I went back to work after three months and DS goes to nursery. If he's ever ill they call DH rather than me as his job is far more flexible on the childcare front.

When DS was six months old I published my first book (I am proud of that so it's not even a stealth boast ) It was really hard to be that disciplined but it is possible if your partner is supportive. I am now pregnant with number 2 and again will go back to work after three months.

I will also say that we married when I was 32 and started trying for children straight away. I didn't fall pregnant until I was 37 so although you may fall pregnant immediately, it may not happen and it's difficult to plan exactly when you may have children.

Thanks caryam and juno - that is something I'm a bit worried about as well. He is also quite career driven and works long hours and I am sure he doesn't see himself as a natural SAHP. I worry that he hasn't really thought through how difficult having children is. He just says, we'll get a nanny. And although it is true that we are fortunate enough to be in that position (I am v aware that we are fortunate), I also know that that won't completely rid us of all stress. We would definitely not both be able to sustain our current working lives with children. It's worrying about how we are going to deal with that shortfall that is causing me stress - I feel like either I'll end up making sacrifices that I don't want to, or I'll try to do too much and have a nervous breakdown!

I guess I have felt a bit bad about insisting that he will be the one to take the lion's share of childcare responsibility. But I think perhaps I should make clear that I could only have children on the condition he is able to take this on...

And it's really helpful to hear how people have made it work -- thank you all!!

I had a high flying career before I had my DC and now I'm pregnant with my second. I also run my own business so have that pressure - if I'm not working I'm not earning.

I really sympathise with many of the points you've raised and have a number of observations to make:

• being self employed will actually give you more flexibility than an employee. You can pick and choose (to some degree) what you're doing.
• early communication with your DP about both of your expectations and different possible childcare scenarios is essential
• you can take as short a maternity leave as you like. I took two weeks and then started to build up my activity gradually after that whenever my DC slept.
• I can work from home which obviously helps but could you do more of that too? I understand chambers are a v traditional set up but that doesn't mean you couldn't forge your own working style.
• very genuinely, your priorities might change when you have a child. They absolutely might not either.
• don't look to others for where you are placed in your career, i.e. so and so was called to the bar x years ago but they are further along in their career than I am. You would have potentially carried and borne a child during that time. You'll catch up- if you want to.
• I read somewhere that it's sometimes easier in career terms to have a child earlier rather than later. There are lower expectations, you are less indispensable, etc. and you can make up the time/put in effort when other women (who waited) are investing more in their families than their careers.
• your lives change when you have children full stop. By that I mean it's natural that you'll BOTH have to make changes, sacrifices and compromises. As long as you're BOTH prepared to do this and with glad hearts, then it shouldn't be a problem.
• motherhood is a huge adjustment and it will impact your thinking.
• discuss financial scenarios with your DP. if only one income, then x. If nanny, then... If two part time workers, then... And for how long each scenario is sustainable. We didn't move up the housing ladder until we were sure where we were and would be with a 5 year time frame.
• I've set up my career so it works for us all as a family now. I'll also be able to ramp up with ease when my DC are in full time education. This isn't an easy thing to do but is working for us. Yes, the work I'm doing isn't the global, industry leading board level stuff I was doing before but it still is very respectable and will absolutely ensure I'm considered to be a valuable and knowledgeable person within my field.

I know this is a bit of a brain dump but I do hope it's a vaguely thought provoking one!

Don't go along with his 'we'll muddle through ' approach - a hundred to one, it will be you who is expected to make the adjustment. And why feel bad about saying that you'll only have kids if you aren't forced to be the SAHP? that's effectively what he's sayin.

If he wants kids that much he clearly needs to compromise. Why should he only entertain the idea of kids with no impact to his career?