AIBU to even entertain the prospect of procreation?

[karmacamellia]

Sorry this is such a massive essay! It's not funny or outrageous (sorry!) but I'd love any insight that people can provide. Please be kind!

I and my DP are both in our late twenties. We've been together six years, and have been living together for four of those. He's fantastic, I love him very much and we're really happy together. He's got a job he loves in a creative industry, I'm a barrister (which means I'm self-employed though working out of kind of practice group called a chambers). We've been thinking we should get married for a while and are now starting to make plans for next summer. And naturally, wedding plans have brought about lots of talk about the future.

It turns out that he really, REALLY wants to have children at some point. He can't imagine a future where he doesn't have kids. I'm much more ambivalent. I like children, I can imagine myself as a mother, and I know that if I had kids I'd love them and do the best I could for them.

But at the same time, I really love my job and am quite ambitious. The area of law I practice in requires extremely long hours on occasion (90 hr weeks/all nighters etc). It's very male dominated and a lot of women tend to dial things back after they have kids (which in practice means only doing lower value, less challenging work and hence falling behind in career terms).

Taking an extended time off won't be an option for me - our chambers lets mothers off rent for a year after each child, but I'd go back to work after that. My DP would not want to be a SAHP (though I'm sure we'd split maternity/paternity leave equally). Although my income does mean I could afford a nanny (and would definitely have to get one) I feel worried firstly that the stress of working this job and having small children would have a massive impact on my mental health, and secondly that having kids wouldn't be compatible with the kind of career success I want, and that if I end up having children I'd have to put things on one side and will end up not fulfilling my potential.

So honestly, even though I'm not against motherhood per se, for myself I feel more inclined not to have children than to have them. I'm so happy with my life and just don't have any particular reason to want to add children into it. The idea of two pregnancies (if we do have children I would want two rather than just one) and the physical strain of that, then two rounds of being stuck at home for a year with a tiny baby, years of sleep deprivation, and just the general stress of loving something so much and worrying about them and wanting to protect them all the time - just really fill me with dread.

I definitely don't want to start a family til I'm at least 35 (so I have a very established name/practice before taking maternity leave). But by that time there might be fertility problems. I feel like I really won't be bothered with the faff of IVF etc but again it might be something I have to go through for my DP's sake (he is insistent he wants to have his own biological children). I'm already feeling stressed out at that and the general idea of how having kids is going to work.

I'm not sure if I should just wait and cross this bridge when I come to it, or decide now that I'm not cut out for parenthood. To be clear, I would definitely not screw DP over by agreeing to marry him and then later saying I would not have kids. AIBU to just hope for the best and think that kids/career/happiness will just work out and I'll muddle through? Or would I be a terrible parent and wreck my own mental health. Should I should split up with him so he can find someone more compatible with his hopes for the future? But I love him and can't imagine not growing old with him. Has anyone been in a similar position (including if anyone has had a DH that is less keen on starting a family)? Any insights appreciated....

Well on the one hand, it's about whether or not he's the one you want to be with, who respects you, who will compromise, who takes into consideration what you want, whether you want the same things etc etc etc...My career has been very important to me (I have three kids).

On the other there is the breathtaking naivety when it comes to thinking you can have kids, have two kids, have kids at the age of 35 purely because that is your choice, and to think you are in control of anything when it comes to conceiving children...

Let alone how you will feel at that time, how your thoughts and feelings will change, how cirumcumtances will change, health, finances, relationship...

As for the 'faff of IVF' I have no words really.

I think you are going to get a huge reality check in one way or another, sorry.

I get it OP. I realised after marriage (when everyone started asking when we'd be having kids!) that I really am not bothered. I went through a really tough time but luckily DH was fab and said he'd be happy not to either.

I'm also very career focused and although I love the idea of having a family, I don't think the actual reality is for me.

I know lots of males who love the idea of family, but when it comes down to it their partners do all the work, make all the sacrifices and in some cases it's ended up with them splitting up as the women resent that the dad gets to carry on almost as usual (this is not true of everyone I might add!)

I also know of a couple where the dh doesn't want kids (told her before marriage) and she married him thinking she can change his mind. Just awful.

I think you need a really full and frank conversation with your dh.

Good luck x

I'm not in your career field but was in fashion- same crazy unpredictable hours, travel anywhere with no planning. Totally unfriendly to families... I loved my job
Ambivalent towards us having kids, then friend had mc and I was over emotional about it, I can only explain it as pressing some kind of internal button. I was 30 and pg 4 weeks later
My career focus and determination hasn't diminished but my tolerance and drive for the bigger projects is more balanced- I'm not fussed about the far flung jobs
I've tweaked my career and honestly don't miss it
Currently pg and I have switched into the I don't want this forever let's make a career change camp
You can still be the career focus you are, you could also have a successful but less lucrative career, either way you'll make it work
Key is open communication with dp now and investment in decent childcare

TBH, given the way you feel about DC and your career, I would advise you to think long and hard about whether have them at all. DC require a massive amount of care, attention and input to make them healthy, happy, well-adjusted people. If you don't particularly want them I expect you will struggle massively with the sacrifices you will need to make and if your DH, who apparently does want them, isn't prepared to sacrifice his career ambitions either I seriously question whether its a good idea. Your future DC are going to be raised by a nanny, by the sound of it, and only partially wanted by one parent. That's not the kind of start in life I'd wish on anyone. And I'm not trying to be nasty - honestly - I'm just saying that raising kids is hard enough when you really want them, let alone when you quite frankly don't.

A friend of mine is a high flying lawyer, partner in an employment law firm, bills around the £400 per hour mark. She went back full time at six months with both of her kids and I don't see that it has damaged her career at home. She loves the kids to bits but obviously sees less of them than if she was part time, but it works for her. In her case her partner is SAHD but it would work just as well with a good nanny.

Thank you for all the replies! It is really helpful to get these different perspectives and it's especially helpful to hear about how others have dealt with these decisions.

thatsucks - I'm very sorry if I offended you. I certainly don't want to diminish anyone else's experience by implying that conception is easy when lots of people go through heartache trying to achieve it.

Juneau - I don't take what you're saying to be nasty - you've actually put your finger on what was worrying me - that maybe it is better for me to accept that I'm not willing to make the requisite sacrifices (or actually, more likely, that I would make sacrifices but feel sad about it). I suppose the problem is I feel like if this is what I decide, I have to let my DP know in no uncertain terms before we start planning a wedding.

But all these comments have convinced me to have a more serious talk with DP about this, and stress that he needs to start thinking about how he'd feel taking primary childcaring responsibility. I'd been putting it off because it seems so far in the future but actually it's stressing me out right now!

Thanks again MNers xo

Haha my name change for this post did not last long!! Embarrassing! I am karmacamellia!

My husband is a barristers clerk, when we went through the zombie newborn period one of the barristers asked dh why the night nanny wasn't pulling her weight! We did have a chuckle on that one!

Dh says with the equality and diversity numbers required by chambers, they actually bend over backwards to accommodate females returning after mat leave. Some of them work hard 6 months and year and do part time 6 months, some he wouldn't realise have a family at home and others scale it all right back.

I'm of the mind that you muddle through and see where you got in to all that but you and dh need to make equal sacrifices- it shouldn't be all on one of you.

Oh wow OP this is such a hard thing to try to decide in advance and I wish you all the best, whatever you decide. Having children is different for everyone and ultimately only you can decide if it's the right path for you. The problem is, you don't know what children are like until you've had them!

For what it's worth, I think it's great that you're clear eyed about the impact children would have on your career. You can get a nanny etc, but having children is still exhausting for a while and your career would slow compared to that of someone without children. It will be easier if you've planned for the harder things than if you're taken by surprise. Frankly, whether or not you can successfully combine a baby with a demanding career depends a lot on the baby. Some sleep through the night from a few weeks old, some (mine) wake wanting cuddles several times a night for years despite everything you try.

But I invite you to think about whether your career is really your only measure of life success. Does it matter if colleagues' careers more a touch faster than yours? What do you want out of your life as a whole, not just now but in the future? One day, hopefully, you will be old. Whether or not you have been an extremely successfuly barrister, or instead a moderately successful barrister, will affect some of the memories you have and how much money you have in the bank. But whether you have had a family... Whether there's anyone to come and visit you, or to pass on your wisdom to, or laugh at your jokes, or invite you to weddings and christenings, or selfishly, anyone to look after you when you and your partner can't cope at home anymore mentally or physically... When you are old your children will be everything to you. You're making this decision not just for the successful and happy barrister you are now, but also for the retired old lady you will hopefully be one day. What does she care about?

I was a City lawyer, I quite liked my job, though not as much as you seem to. But nothing could have prepared me for the intensity with which I adore my son. I was never bothered about other people's children and was surprised by how passionately I love being a mother. Frankly, remembering my career worries and dramas seems now like remembering Secondary School - so important at the time, so irrelevant to me now. That's irritating to hear and I feel mildly embarrassed to write it, but I'm trying to convey some of what you may feel if you do have children. Before you have children everyone tells you about the lack of sleep and the nappy changes etc, but no-one warns you that you're about to fall in love more intensely than ever before, and no-one tells you how much fun it can be. I have spent hours just tickling my son and watching him giggle his head off. The happiest nights of my life have been snuggled up breastfeeding a young baby. Teaching my son that sounds can be written as pictures and tell stories is fascinating and a privilege. The biggest regret of my life is that I waited until my mid 30s to have children as I'd love to have had lots. But that's me. You're you. Ramble over. Best wishes.

Lovely post boiing agree with every word.

Fantastic post boiing!
Op- what boiing said.... :-)

Well I'd give it a bit more time. It can all be worked out, just that some things may have to give at some point. You may have a baby and decide you want to stay at home until he/she starts school. You may have a baby and decide you want another four. You may have a baby, take a year out, and then work out a way of working full time with a nanny or childminders. You may take a long look at your career and decide that you really don't want to have to take a break for some years, and have a baby at 40. If you would like a child EVER, then there is always a way through. I had a friend who is a barrister, and she had two dcs in her early 30s. She did manage, but it was hard juggling it all. She took time out, and also had a nanny. Good luck whatever you decide.

Oh and one of my best friends is a partner in a city law firm. She started work when her dc1 was a little boy, worked very hard but managed because her DH works nights and so could pick up their dc from school etc. Then after a longish gap she took a year out having another baby, who went to nursery from 12m. She is very successful, has to fly all over the world for work, and at times it is really exhausting but she loves her job and absolutely would not want to work less or at a less demanding job. She is 50 now, her eldest child is working and her younger in the sixth form, it has all worked out really well. Having a very hands on DH has helped but he has never been a SAHD. She had a nanny for a short time but actually found it easier without one.

Motherhood can be all consuming in the early years because babies, toddlers and pre-schoolers need a lot of hands on care. However, now that my children are 11 and 8, I am loving the parenting thing and the balance I have with my ft work, something I did not feel when I was previously working pt with very young children.

The bit of boiling's post about the choice between the hot shot lawyer and moderately successful lawyer resonates with me because I ended up with the second option, but not minding it too much. At the end of the day, it is just a few more plaques and money in the bank and flash holidays you have no time for and big houses. One thing money is very useful for is private schooling ...

However, I cannot say that anything fundamentally changed in my outlook because I had babies. I love my children and will move heaven and earth for them. But I am still the same person, relieved I have my perfect number of 2 children, that my child bearing is out of the way and I can reinvigorate my career and continue onwards and upwards about a spell in the wilderness.

The OP didn't talk about money, but about the desire to have the really interesting cases. There is nothing wrong with being ambitious. But you need your DH to be the one who will dial down his career when children come along.

I think you are right to question it. I am a surgeon and DH also has a full on career. He works away a lot. We have a 3 year old and I am pregnant. It is bloody hard. We have a nanny but it is still a complete nightmare. I went back at 11 months so a year mat leave. 9 months would have been fine but I was exhausted for the next year with so little sleep (ds up multiple times a night) and a full time job. Dh did pull his weight but despite this it was really hard for the first 3 years. I stupidly decided to do it once again and have now had 4 months of vomiting which has rendered me semi useless at work. We really wanted children but I absolutely think that not having them is also a good choice. I envy child free friends their holidays career focus and sleep. Some people manage to have it all and I hoped I would but not all babies are easy .

I agree with a previous poster that having children is so hard even when you really want them, so if you are ambivalent about them, I absolutely wouldn't bother.

And yes, having a nanny (if you're lucky enough to find the right one) will make things easier but there will still be an awful lot more to do/think about it with children than without and it won't be compatible with a 90/hour a week job. One of you will really have to cut back your hours otherwise you simply won't have a role in bringing up your children.

I went back to work after 6 weeks with each if my DC and my career (not as demanding as law) has continued to flourish and grow.

What strikes me about your post is you talking about taking a years maternity leave. Which makes me think you haven't thought childcare through at all.

Philosophically will you be happy seeing very little of your DC and hiring a series of nannies? (I was )

Because if you are OK with that then you don't need to take 12 months leave. And if you're not OK with that (lots of people aren't) then you shouldn't have DC.

Agree with the PPs saying you need to be careful the childcare doesn't just fall to you by default - I think for many childless people (me) the amount and nature of the work of childcare is unknown and the process of discovery starts in pregnancy and during mat leave so it would be very easy for your DP to just not pay attention and not get involved. It would take a special effort for him as a bloke to assume the main caring role, and someone needs to even if you have a nanny. Also what you might find, specially as you will be one to one with the kids in the early months, is that you'll feel responsible if the childcare setup isn't working for your kid and you might end up being the one who blinks and dials back on the career. Some kids don't take well to childcare, if they have additional needs it can be hard, even if they are bad sleepers or a bit clingy, you may find you're not willing to delegate all the childcare if you can do it better yourself.

Being honest I don't think you should have children as I don't think you want them.

And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

But you need to make it clear to your DP.

OP you didn't offend me.

I am extremely fortunate that I have three children (and a career). But I never, ever just thought that would all come to be easily and whenever I wanted. It's very much about compromise, very very hard work and putting your children's needs first.

I think you are very naive with your airy statements about how many kids you could have at post 35 years - and you should think about that.

Anyone who talks about the 'faff' of IVF' is a bit stupid tbh - both because using the word 'faff' is so far off the mark for the experience it's unreal and because you're on a forum where many have gone through it.

And agree with others - you don't sound like you want kids. That's fine! Totally legit position. But don't go ahead thinking it will magically all work out how you want it to.

OP I decided to wait until 33 to have baby no 1 thinking that I had 2 years until fertility drops off at 35 to have my family. In reality I think that older women find things much more tiring. I would start earlier if I had my time again.