To think that on International Women's Day the last thing I need is "inspiration" from someone with wraparound childcare and a lucky career?

[toomuchtooold]

I'm not going to point to specific examples (as I don't want to get outed and fired) but I'm sure there are many of you out there today logging on to your computers, seeing the corporate intranet landing page load up and on it there is an interview with some high up in your company talking about how she got to be so successful. I'm going to guess that the article somewhere mentions

• "you can do whatever you want if you set your mind to it"
• "mentors are so important/so and so was such an inspiration to me"
• "being an example to my son/daughter"

What they never seem to mention is

• being in maybe the top 1% of earners and therefore having the means to pay for wraparound childcare
• never having been made redundant, despite often working for companies that go through restructuring on a regular basis

AIBU to think that these success stories of the highly privileged are just big business doing a bit of victim blaming, implying that we could all be captains of industry with lovely lives if ony we had a bit of aspiration and hard work, when in actual fact these interviews depict the lives of a privileged few, and most companies' business models would be bust if we all expected to be earning at that level?

How do you know they have wraparound childcare and are in the 1% earners.

Well if they are at the top of the tree at a large corporate they are likely to be in that 1%.

There's no way you can know what their childcare arrangements are but they can afford whatever works for them.

I don't currently work for a big corporate but I see where you're coming from.

I have read you post twice op and i still dont know what is the point you are trying to make.

Hi OP, I know just what you mean.I've seen these type of articles and allthough there are some excellent organisations that provide mentorship they are few and far between.It's pretty hard to "lean in"when a meeting's dragging on for no real reason and all you can think about is who's going to pick your child up from after school club.

But surely a vast majority of these women started lower down the scale?

Mmmm. No hard work involved. No doing shit jobs because you knew you had to do your time. No working in shit locations because you needed the experience. Just 'luck'.

It annoys me because we can't all have top jobs. The whole point of topjobs is that you have loads of people under you earning less.

I really don't understand the vitriol on here that is poured on successful people, whether female or male.
The implication that they are somehow "privileged" seems most unfair. How do you define "privileged"? It is quite possible and not that usual to work hard and be successful without what is described as a "privileged" background.
If a person isn't motivated to set and achieve goals for him or herself, not amount of "privilege" will get them to the top of the career ladder.

I get what you're saying OP. One 'inspirational' role model wheeled out once a year is no substitute for a woman-friendly workplace and policies that support that the whole year round. Some of the examples on the sexism at work thread show where there is still a lot to be done.

yes choccy that's exactly what I mean - companies wouldn't be able to afford it if we were all paid like that, and there are tons more people in middle management/bottom of the ladder, their experience is more typical, so why not profile them for International Women's Day?

however, I'm not saying that luck was the only reason they got to the top but I would argue luck was essential, that they've been luckier than most. I don't think they have much to teach the rest of us.

Obviously these women haven't started off being at the top of their profession, have they? They studied hard, they worked hard, they were ambitious and they were lucky. No, not everyone succeeds, but it's good to celebrate success and to show that it is possible to be a career woman and a mother.

Op if you are saying that a few high level female professionals do not compensate for not having family friendly policies then i totally agree.

But as some posters have said your post seems to imply that reaching the top is a matter of privilege not merit. And i disagree with that point of view.

I don't think they have much to teach the rest of us.

I'd disagree, passionately. Of course they will have things that they can teach, the same as anyone. You can learn from everyone, and that includes people that you believe only got to where they are through luck. Perhaps especially them, because they must be portraying themselves fantastically to keep the position, and ensure that other people have confidence in them. That can be exceptionally difficult as a woman in senior management.

OP I see where you are coming from.

Companies need humane family/life friendly policies at all levels for men and women.

I don't get why successful people are always put down either. Many of them have worked really hard.
It's not always just luck.
What about people from ethnic minorities who literally had nothing but worked hard?
I know people like that.
Yes of course there's luck involved. It's lucky they weren't left paralysed in a car crash and born without health problems or other mitigating circumstances but most people I know worked hard too and made sacrifices.
The people who get to the top usually have drive too. I didn't so I didn't get higher in my career than I did, but I think I could have if I was willing to work for it and see my kids less.

OP, you call it 'victim blaming', I call it taking responsibility for yourself.

Believe it or not, these people might not just have 'lucky careers'; they might have applied their abilities, studies, focused, planned and ultimately earned their career.

What's stopping you from doing the same? Or is it always someone else's fault?

Infinity as I said upthread I don't believe these people got to where they are by luck alone but I do think that luck is necessary to get to a position like that. I would agree you can always learn something from everyone, but I think for me, hearing an honest account from someone say 10 years older than me in a similar position to me would be far more interesting, useful, and encouraging, because what they have managed, they have done with roughly the same conditions as me. No problem hearing from female board members from time to time, but it's always board members and never entry level people that get featured in these things.

I think it is fantastic when people achieve highly in any area of life.

But it defies logic to imply everyone in a hierarchical organisation or society can "reach the top" of the management tree.

Luck and being a ruthless arsehole is normally how people get to the top. They don't impress me much. I am more impressed by those living ordinary lives loving their children and loved ones despite having crap thrown at them.

Luck and being a ruthless arsehole is normally how people get to the top.

Riiiiight, so hard work, drive and competency are irrelevant?

I agree, the articles here were full of tired cliches. Lots of the potted advice (as OP listed) along with "lots of luck, and being in the right place at the right time".

I'm sure that advice will make very little difference to the practical challenges of the juggling!

Agree with TendonQueen - annual (or however often) PR exercise ("look what a great employer we are, we allowed a woman to achieve this" [my interpretation of such piffle]) is not good enough

I think the last thing we actually need, OP, is someone carping from the sidelines, jealously moaning about how a woman could never have got to the top without a significant amount of luck.

Maybe she's spent the past 20 years working her arse off. Is it ok with you if she is considered successful after that?

Babycham1979 you've got me wrong, I have good qualifications and a decent job. I'm far from joining the board of anywhere, but that's because of life choices that I have made: as far as it goes, I've actually been very lucky at times in my career in that I've survived a few redundancies and I've been lucky enough to meet people who really believed in me at key points in my career.