To think that on International Women's Day the last thing I need is "inspiration" from someone with wraparound childcare and a lucky career?

[toomuchtooold]

I'm not going to point to specific examples (as I don't want to get outed and fired) but I'm sure there are many of you out there today logging on to your computers, seeing the corporate intranet landing page load up and on it there is an interview with some high up in your company talking about how she got to be so successful. I'm going to guess that the article somewhere mentions

• "you can do whatever you want if you set your mind to it"
• "mentors are so important/so and so was such an inspiration to me"
• "being an example to my son/daughter"

What they never seem to mention is

• being in maybe the top 1% of earners and therefore having the means to pay for wraparound childcare
• never having been made redundant, despite often working for companies that go through restructuring on a regular basis

AIBU to think that these success stories of the highly privileged are just big business doing a bit of victim blaming, implying that we could all be captains of industry with lovely lives if ony we had a bit of aspiration and hard work, when in actual fact these interviews depict the lives of a privileged few, and most companies' business models would be bust if we all expected to be earning at that level?

Your mum sounds amazing Donna. That really is inspiring

I kind if agree and don't. I don't think the inspiring people are necessarily at the top, but let's face it it's only a corporate article to pass a few mins whilst your PC boots up.

I have a professional qualification, typically gained whilst working full time which makes it very tough. I did mine with a woman in her mid 30s 2 children and pregnant with her 3rd. She took an exam with me at 9 months pregnant. That's inspirational, especially to young women. No massive pay
Packet, no stunning childcare - not as impressive as finance director. But an inspirational story everyone can appreciate surely?

Well then, OP; maybe you have some constructive advice, knowledge, inspiration to offer your younger or more junior peers that could help them get to where you are now? Or maybe you just got lucky?

OK Donna so if you want to make this about me insulting your mum I guess you can can fill your boots, but I said it took luck to get to the top, I did not say it only takes luck. Well done to your mum. Plenty of people do all she has done and don't get so far in life, call that luck or whatever you want. I'm sure if they are working at her company, her efforts are benefiting them. There are far more women, me among them, who would like to do what most men do which is have a job they can be successful at without having to make a superhuman effort at everything. has your mum any advice for us, possibly not.

Well for that matter everyone is lucky for one thing or the other, it can be health, having a supportive family, being born in the correct country and century, etc.

I dont really see that that downplaying the succes of someone who has earned it benefits anyone.

toomuch yabu, you come across very bitter and your entire post reflects that. Instead of being so negative and hunting for reasons to discredit someone else's success, why not work out why you feel this way towards people who have achieved success. It may be down to luck, but there is also hard work to get there, you could have it too instead of tearing someone down.

babycham not sure what your point is, I've acknowledged that there has been some luck in my career, to the extent that my career depended on luck there's not much point in me giving advice, that's right. Here's an example. I made a career change when my old career was becoming obsolete due to offshoring. I managed to talk myself into a new job in a totally different area thanks to a hiring manager who liked the look of me. One of my ex colleagues then emailed me and asked me how it was done. I had nothing to tell her!

Luck plays a big part (and I am one of the lucky ones).

I don't think this is about envy though. The OP's issue is about the lack of empathy with the less fortunate shown by many wealthy successful people.

I know what you mean - it implies that if you only really cared and worked really hard you, too, could be at the top.

It's patently untrue. We can't all be in charge, we don't all have the same opportunities or support and (crucially) we don't all want high powered careers which require travelling / long hours / working weekends.

Those articles feel to me a bit like a way of saying 'any choice except leaning in is less valid and valued in this company' aka as 'work full time and pretend you don't have kids if you want to get to the top'.

What would appeal to me is inspirational stories of successful part-timers, tips on how people look after kids and /or elderly parents and still do good work, examples of people coming back from career breaks / maternity leave and getting promoted etc.

Hmm I do think I understand you OP.

It's a bit like wheeling out the example of Margaret Thatcher and saying "She did it, so can all women, she's so inspirational."

This approach conveniently ignores the fact that the reason she could succeed in her political career was not that she was outstandingly intelligent, went to Oxford to read Chemistry, and became a Barrister, at a time when women had to fight for all those things (whatever one might think about her politics, she was hugely impressive) but ... that she married a multi-millionaire in her 20s and therefore never had to worry about childcare for her twins, or whether working 20 hour days would destroy her home life. Ok, I'm exaggerating for effect, but the "just do it" attitude isn't always that helpful.

Chipdip I tried really hard to phrase it in a way that didn't sound bitter, because I'm not, or at least I didn't think I was before I started this thread and everyone started telling me I was . I've got no problem with these women and their success, just have a problem with them being featured as proof that women have it equal these days, or as an example to the rest of us if their day to day lives depend on being funded by wages that the majority of us are just not going to be able to earn. With some reservations I accept that any one of us could make it if they set their mind to it - I just think that if we ALL set our minds to it, there'd be too many bosses and not enough workers and nothing would actually get done!

Totally agree with you OP.

I work in a relatively family-friendly company but most of the very senior female employees don't have kids. Most of the senior male employees do.

I long ago took the decision not to move up further. I want a life as well as a career and I want to see my kids.

I still earn three times what my husband does and he works far harder than me, in a job that probably requires more specialist education and knowledge (he is a medical and legal translator). In my experience most senior people do NOT work especially hard!

I can understand your point of view OP.
I can also see the points being made by other posters. Where I work there is a woman who is, on paper, my equal but who is actually held in far far higher esteem than me. It is because she is hugely committed to work in a way I could never emulate. However, even if I had her drive and ambition I couldn't make the same commitment to work as her because she is fortunate enough to have the kind of wrap around childcare I will never have access to. She achieves what she does through a combination of work and good fortune.

I tried really hard to phrase it in a way that didn't sound bitter

Sorry op, you do sound bitter.

I completely agree OP. I call it the Gwyneth effect. See, you can be like me, looking fabulous and feeding my children organic macrobiotic hand made delicacies and have a fabulous career.
You have 2 nannies, a weekend nanny and staff and millions of punds. you are not just like any other working mum.

How being a movie star is harder than a ‘regular’ working mom:
“I think to have a regular job and be a mom is not as hard, of course there are challenges, but it’s not like being on set,” Paltrow said.

Read more: stylecaster.com/gwyneth-paltrow-most-ridiculous-pretentious-quotes/#ixzz3TbPX5cLB
In 2013, Harper’s Bazaar‘s Sarah Brown interviewed Paltrow who revealed that she managed to get through her tenth London winter by assigning January “international month,” and amusing son Moses and big sister, Apple with a visiting Italian chef, Japanese anime screenings, and hand-rolled-sushi lessons.

toomuchtooold

It isn't pure coincidence that the women who make it seem easy, are the people with amazing stories to share, how they have used skill, focus and ballsy-ness to achieve great things. Not always with the silver spoon or being handed it on a plate.

I work with women like that all the time, and I find myself observing how they do things, and being inspired. They are probably earning double my salary, but they become mentors 'by example' -there is always a nugget of truth that resonates and things to learn, those people are wise.

I agree there is a lot more work to be done around family-friendly/childcare policies in the workplace, but it's unhelpful getting stuck in a groove with the "it's all right for them" naysayer mentality.

You use the word "imply" in the context of them victim-blaming people who aren't "at the top" - that's ludicrous! - your OP is full of unhelpful assumptions .... We can all wake up in the morning and choose our attitude

Carriemac there are millions of women in this world apart from Gwyneth Paltrow (although she would beg to differ).

We don't always need to look to people like her for inspiration, there are plenty of other alternative women we can look to. I find her very uninspiring!

Having been to many talks from mothers who have made it to the top in science, me and my bitter female friends learned that you can make it if 1) you are very, very rich and/or 2) you marry someone very, very rich and/or 3) you take the gamble of having your children after you've made it and risk not having them at all, and/or 4) you make massive sacrifices within your home and family life.

I'm not so much bitter that they've made it - that's the way the world goes I suppose, it's more that they were invited in to our campus to talk to us and we were sitting there thinking it was entirely irrelevant to our lives.

The Director of my old institute's response when I approached her in my role as Staff Association rep to discuss the planned removal of childcare subsidies for the on site nursery, was "well, I had to manage".

bonkers I am an ex scientist and feeling your pain. Science is supposed to be all about the future but for most academic researchers it's like the days of the Victorian gentlemen scientists never went away. I remember once hosting a quite famous Cambridge prof for a talk, and him reminiscing that the science park my company was sited on, was near the country estate that his friend owned and where he'd written up his PhD! I wrote up my PhD while sharing a room in a flat with my DH with all my worldly good piled up in boxes at his window!

I managed to talk myself into a new job in a totally different area thanks to a hiring manager who liked the look of me

me-thinks you are being a bit disingenuous here under-represented what you needed to do. I doubt you will have just said "can I have a job please", and it fell into your lap. You will have needed to make a significant impact on that hiring manager that you had transferable skills they could use.

So, you did what "top women" do, move around, carve out opportunities when redundancy was on the cards. In other words you "made your own luck" - you had options and you made your choice - how are you any different to them

has your mum any advice for us, possibly not

Nope, I don't suppose you'd listen to it, even if it were given!

I used to work with a woman who had had a baby at age 16, followed by another a few years later. Her second child proved to have quite complex behavioural needs, such that later she went to a special school behavioural unit in KS2. Her mother eventually went to college, took courses and worked as a TA with me and was always utterly reliable, consistent, supportive and compassionate, despite what must have been an incredibly stressful parenting life. In her mid/late 30s she married a lovely man and I was delighted for her - as far as I know it has worked out well.

You are right and I would love to see a few profiles like this amongst the typical high-flyers.

daisychain

"So, you did what "top women" do... how are you any different to them"

Well for a start I don't earn nearly as much but mostly I think the difference is that I acknowledge the role that luck had in getting me that job. It was a graduate scheme, I met lots of the other entrants from other years, I was the only person they ever took on with a CV anything like mine so it really was that hiring manager on that day and if I'd applied in another year I'd have got a knock back. And I was also fortunate that I could afford to take a drop in pay because my DH had a good wage. Your typical corporate Women's Day profile would have conveniently neglected to mention either of those facts and would have said instead something about having the vision to know when to move or the guts to try and fail or some crap like that.

MaybeDoctor I would love to hear a bit more about women with lives like that - especially to know that life doesn't have to go 100% according to plan to be able to make something good out of it.

YABU on so many levels.

• Companies are desperate to get more women into the leadership pipeline, for all sorts of reasons. They want other women to aspire to these positions, so they have to show that it can be done. And why not? I'm interested in reading about succesful women, particularly mothers. I usually admire them for what they have achieved.
• More women at the top means more people who understand how difficult it can be to combine a demanding career with bringing up a family. These are the people who are going to push through more family-friendly policies in your own workplace. Don't knock 'em.
• Through my job I have interviewed a lot of famously successful business women about this very issue. Most of them don't pay for wraparound childcare: they have husbands who have opted to be SAHDs or work from home so that they take charge of the house. They may earn a lot of money now, but they didn't necessarily when they started. They all put their careers down to "luck". Of course it's not luck -- they're successful because they have brains and talent and supber interpersonal and networking skills, usually more so than a man at the same level. But even a man has to appear modest when interviewed about career success, so everyone talks about luck, and anyone being able to do what they put their minds to.
• I can't speak for every internal comms department, but I've run a few in my time and always profiled people in all parts of the organisation. If your organisation isn't doing this, go and talk to the internal comms team and tell them the sort of content that you would find interesting and inspiring.

As someone who meets the criteria set out in the latter part of your post and is 'guilty' of making comments akin to those in the first part of your post I really really resent the implication that my success is due to luck and privilege.

There is of course some privilege attached to my birth in the western world and my free education (and many people on this thread will be in a similar position) but beyond that I have worked.

Yes I now have wrap around childcare but there was a time when I had to get on the no 38 at rush hour with baby 1 in a pushchair and no 2 in a sling, often hiking 5 miles when the bus was too full to accommodate my DC, to drop my DC at nursery and sprint back to office so I could start work repeating in reverse only to be the last parent to collect in evening.

I have taken the jobs no one else wanted, worked late/through the night/missed sports days/plays/music recitals to get to a position where I can now say i will be there.