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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder why being bright seems to be frowned upon?

76 replies

OhFlippityBolax · 05/03/2015 21:42

Back in the dark ages of my time at primary school, you had to hide the fact you were bright and often had to 'play dumb' to fit in with other kids.

I'm noticing this with my own dc. They're very academic, arty children but again they almost have to 'hide' it and one has even asked the teacher outright to stop calling on them in class to answer questions because the other kids rib them so much in the playground about their general knowledge.

Also watching this programme on channel 5 about the huge primary school, the poor girl being picked on for being studious

Is it universal? Is it something you've seen at school? Why is it we are so anti academic kids?

OP posts:
Enb76 · 06/03/2015 13:05

I think it's partly to do with peer ability. If your child is an outlier of any description then they're not 'within' the herd. My bright child is lucky because she's in a class with another bright child and they make a herd of two which other people want to join.

When I was at school you had to be bright but you had to be bright without working. To be seen to do any work other than the bare minimum actually meant you were a bit thick! That's fine for GCSE's, A-levels I came a cropper.

TempsPerdu · 06/03/2015 13:06

I was very lucky I think - I went to a grammar school where being clever actually enhanced your social status. If anything we had the opposite problem, as everyone was ultra-competitive and unhealthily obsessed with grades and exam results!

I do remember quite a bit of teasing at primary school though - 'boff' was the insult of choice back then. It very much depends on the school and the context; as a teacher I've seen just as much mocking of SEN children going on - it's children picking up on anything they perceive as 'different', and is equally damaging for the child at both ends of the spectrum I think.

I do agree that Britain as a country remains stubbornly anti-intellectual. That, coupled with the prevalence of 'Tall Poppy Syndrome' can make it difficult for more academic people to allow themselves to stand out. I've certainly had to consciously 'dumb down' in some of the workplace situations I've been in in order to be accepted by colleagues.

BestZebbie · 06/03/2015 13:07

My experience of this is that if there are only one or two children in a class who are noticeably ahead of the others in ability, the mass of the class will try to sabotage their performance (usually socially, sometimes directly) so that they stop making the others look bad and raising the teacher's expectations of the potential output of the group. Tests which are marked on a curve also strongly reward sabotaging the top couple of achievers to bump everyone else up rather than studying to add a small amount of extra marks to your own score if you are only middling.

TempsPerdu · 06/03/2015 13:13

And yes, agree with Enb76 that it makes a huge difference if there is a critical mass of bright children within a class.

YY also to the 'bright without working' thing - even at my grammar school it was very much the done thing to deny having done any revision for exams. Intelligence was only 'cool' as long as it was seen as innate and effortless.

DoraGora · 06/03/2015 13:17

It doesn't happen at our school. It's up to the head/leadership team to set the atmosphere and environment in the school.

nihatsgirl · 06/03/2015 13:17

I agree with you OP. I am a foreigner and have found this a very unusual societal norm in the UK. My ex hubby is a science teacher and on his first visit to my homeland marvelled at how studious everyone was. I have not seen evidence of it at my 7 year old daughters primary school and she is a naturally studious child who enjoys excelling in school. I hope to be able to encourage her to maintain this attitude through school. In my workplace though and community at large, it is my experience that it's not a good thing to be smart/ studious/clever. Luckily, ppl's opinion of me, does not influence me much

hiddenhome · 06/03/2015 13:56

I was bullied all through secondary for being a 'swot'. I also wore glasses and played a musical instrument. I really wanted to learn and go to university, but the bullying wore me down and the anxiety put a stop to my aspirations.

Ds2 was bullied at two primary schools for being geeky and into science. The third one he's at has a higher proportion of intelligent middle class kids, so it's no longer a problem.

Both him and I had our worst experiences in traditional working class schools where being bright was something suspicious and to be knocked out of someone. Even the teachers didn't encourage academic ability. There's a certain type of working class attitude towards learning that infuriates me. Not saying all people from that background are like that, but the NE has lots of reverse snobbery going on and I still go to lengths to hide who I am for fear of ridicule. Not that I'm anybody special, but if you don't fit in you're quickly identified and talked about.

Wibblypiglikesbananas · 06/03/2015 15:26

I posted earlier and I'd like to echo another poster - the bullying didn't happen in Maths or Physics or Chemistry where we were in sets - in those classes it was fine to be bright. I'd answer questions in those lessons. The mixed ability classes were awful. I didn't answer questions or volunteer any info, even though I knew the answers full well. I got straight As and A*s in my GCSEs, though the English speaking and listening component was graded separately. I got a lower grade there as I just didn't dare speak for fear of being bullied! Ok, it's not the end of the world but FGS, how wrong was that? There is no way on earth my children will go to a mixed intake comp like the one I went to. If I ever find my children having to 'dumb down' for fear of looking like a 'swot', I'll home school them myself.

PeppermintCrayon · 06/03/2015 15:28

So it was a huge shock to me when I grew up and entered the world of employment and discovered that people sneer at you for having gone to university, sneer at you for being bright, or ambitious. It's just a relentless assault of 'ooh, so you think you're better than everyone else?'

Where on earth do you work? Hmm

fridgepants · 06/03/2015 15:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

xiaozhu · 06/03/2015 16:07

What Nobodyliveshere said. I went to a rough state school and was bullied to hell. Others I know who went to 'naice' schools were admired for being smart.

RedToothBrush · 06/03/2015 16:09

Its refreshing to hear that being bright doesn't necessarily mean you will be bullied as I was. DH ended up with behavioural issues stemming from being bored at school and trying to cover up his intelligence.

I hope that things have changed for the better. Its affected me into adulthood and I have confidence issue.

treaclesoda · 06/03/2015 16:30

Why the Hmm? Peppermint Confused

If you go into some highly sought after graduate entry position in a big company, obviously it won't happen, because you'll be surrounded by like minded people. But in 'ordinary' workplaces all around the place you can see it all the time.

treaclesoda · 06/03/2015 16:32

Put my question mark in the wrong place. That wasn't very smart of me Grin

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 06/03/2015 16:36

It sounds more as though OP's DC are a bit shy at this stage, rather than indicative of a wider problem.

I do think things have changed on this - and I do remember girls (especially girls - the boys didn't feel any such pressure) at around 13/14 in my school just going quiet, or resolving not to answer questions in class any more, for popularity points.

My two have never cared if anyone has a problem with that, I don't think. I'm sure they've both been called geeks, but 'geek' isn't used in the same way now as 'swot' was back then - it doesn't seem to be a wounding term, or else it isn't wounding to them, at least.

On the other hand, I have heard of fellow students bursting into tears if they don't come top in things, so perhaps it's not all utopian nowadays!

Gatehouse77 · 06/03/2015 16:46

Fortunately, my DC's school celebrates ability and they are not ribbed about it. I'm sure there may be some low level nastiness from some but they shrug it off as they know those people are either jealous or too stupid to realise how they look to others.

motherinferior · 06/03/2015 17:28

Yep, Nit, several of my daughters' grimy comp contemporaries get very upset if they've dropped a mark or two...

I was picked on at school from time to time but looking back on it I was also a bizarre and socially incompetent smartarse, which probably had quite a lot to do with it.

I also think, possibly separately, that a lot of men have a problem with bright women. Certainly with women who're brighter than they are.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 06/03/2015 17:53

No, I'm sure it was that you were bright, not the smartarse thing.... Wink

motherinferior · 06/03/2015 17:57

I was awful. Truly I was.

Hakluyt · 06/03/2015 18:35

Actually, my ds has had a run in or two- he is bright, but by no means exceptional- except in his school. When the incidents have been investigated they have, with one exception, been down to him being an intellectually arrogant little toerag who richly deserved everything he got. Which he has the grace, I may say, to acknowledge.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2015 18:42

I'm glad that this hasn't been my DD's experience in either her primary or secondary schools. But then, the decision about schools was probably partly influenced by wanting to avoid this sort of thing.

Hakluyt · 06/03/2015 20:55

Being clever is fantastic- being a smart arse not so much. Some children take a while to work out which is which. Some never manage it...........!

Preciousbane · 07/03/2015 09:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pishedorf · 07/03/2015 22:15

My DC isn't in school yet but I'm terrified she will be bullied because of some imaginary infringement of the social norm that bullies will home in.

I was horrendously bullied in school for being clever. I am from an extremely poor working class family in an extremely deprived area. I was bullied from the second I started to the second I left primary school. Daily taunts and frequent physical attacks (I had my front teeth punched out when I was 6). What was worse was that the teachers also found me an inconvenience because I was clever. I was purposely held back from many things (such as being the last to move from penicil to pen, I was never chosen for any special things like assemblies or such like ) and was constantly told I was too 'sensitive' for getting upset when I was called names or assaulted.

Unfortunately I grew up in a family where intelligence was seen as a shameful abnormality, so I was left to deal with this on my own, or told it was all my fault for thinking I was better than everyone else.

Thankfully I didn't let it defeat me and I was determined to work my arse off to get a good career and leave all my fuckwit peers behind shacked up with their drug dealer boyfriends.

However I committed the serious crime of being intelligent AND slightly overweight so the taunts were focused on my looks both in school and my family and 20 plus years later I'm still dealing with the binge eating disorder it's left me with.

The day my child starts school is going to be a very tough one for me, for more reasons than most. My DC is quite bright and I fear if they are bullied too I won't be able to help them as I couldn't help myself :(

Pishedorf · 07/03/2015 22:18

Ah yes precious I remember those screams from my own mum 'get that nose out of that book and go and play outside' ... Yeah with the kids on my street who bullied me? No thanks.