Who is BU here - us or landlord?

[TicklishSpider]

Namechanging for this because maybe identifiable plus am scared of AIBU.

Last year our landlord told us she wanted to sell. Not great timing for us because we had a newborn at the time but okay, it's her property. We started making plans to move, rented a storage unit, etc., but then the valuation came back lower than she'd hoped. She said she'd have a think and be in touch, then dropped out of contact and that's the last we heard from her for about a year.

Meanwhile, I went back to work after mat leave, got made redundant, and found a new job. New job is great but a) will probably mean moving across the country and b) doesn't start till autumn.

LL has just been in touch again to say she's selling now, but wants us to get to stay as long as possible, both for our benefit and to cover the mortgage. Any sale shouldn't be completed until July at the earliest by her estate agent's reckonings, so we can stay until at least then, but in the meantime can we keep place in viewable condition for viewers, etc. OK, that's a hassle with Hurricane Toddler around and I don't like the idea of potential buyers traipsing in and out of my home, but we can manage. Main problem is that if it's July, that would be really difficult though - for various reasons we can't move to the city where I'll probably be working until August at the earliest, ideally later.

So we replied to say: we don't mind viewings, we'll keep the place looking good, arrange times for home report and photos in show-home condition and everything with agents as asked, but if it's July that would make it really hard for us because of jobs/moves/etc., could you please please please give us until early August? (This would be 3 weeks after the date she gave as absolute earliest we'd have to leave.)

And she said no. If it's not sold until August then of course we can stay until then, but she wants to offer maximum flexibility to buyers and let them move in on short notice if they want. (We have a 2-month notice period in our lease but it sounds like she thinks she's given us notice already, albeit without a date, so doesn't need to give us two months of warning at that point and can just let the buyers pick date of entry. This worries me.)

We'll just have to lump it anyway really, I'm sure we can stay in MIL's spare room for a month or two if needed (far from ideal though that would be), but are we BU to be really a bit annoyed about all this?

I'm fairly sure she'd need to give you two months notice in writing with an agreed concrete end date

She needs to give you notice in writing, specifying the last date of the tenancy.

Do not bend over backwards to allow viewings, you are not obliged to.
You are well within your rights to refuse any, however this will likely get the Landlords back up.

Specify certain dates and times that viewings can happen that will not inconvenience you too much i.e saturday mornings, that way you don't have to try and maintain showhome standards with a toddler.

Oh and make sure the agents don't have a key to let themselves in.

Look up Section 21s. To be honest, you could probably refuse to leave on the given date and then she'd have to apply for court order of possession, which would stall her. If you don't want to be that aggressive maybe you could get in touch with whoever ends up buying it.

I would be querying the 2 month notice issue. House sales progress and then fall through all the time. You could be living on tenter-hooks for months if she feels she's given notice and can just chuck you out whenever a buyer snaps their fingers!

I'd be telling her if she wants us to stay for the mortgage, AND the house kept looking good for viewers, AND indeed viewers let in, then i want to be allowed to stay till August.

Not at all. If she wants you to help her out, which all the keeping it nice for viewings etc is, then she needs to reciprocate with flexibility around your wishes. If she wants to not give an inch, then there's no reason for you to either. You don't have to keep it in viewable condition for example. And I am a landlord saying this.

I am a landlord and she is trying to have her cake and eat it. You don't have to be accommodating about viewing, you have the right to quiet enjoyment of your home. She needs to give you two months notice in writing.

I think she is being unreasonable. She is expecting a lot from you but not giving anything in return. It would have been OK for there to be some give and take, i.e. you'll be happy for viewings and keeping the place tidy in return for not having to move out till August.

You could very easily make it very awkward for viewings if you so wished. But then they might just serve you your notice anyway, and you'd be out in June and trying to find somewhere to stay for those extra months.

I also do not agree that they have given you notice when there is not a fixed date.

No this has to be done properly 2 months notice then leave or else its very stressful. Talk to cab.

Also forgot to add you allowed enjoyment of the place you paying to rent in. Just say you allow viewing on x day between x time and x time with agreement before. (You dont want to tidy if no one viewing).

You are doing her a favour by allowing viewings anyway. You do know that you don't have to?

She has a cheek asking you to keep the place tidy for viewers, but then offering no flexibility of her own. You are paying rent to use it exclusively as your home, not to assist the landlord by providing a show home. If she won't budge, I would start being a lot more difficult about viewings.

Are you on a fixed term contract, or month to month?

I'd tell her that in that case, you won't be allowing viewing apart from a weekly two hour slot at your convenience. And meanwhile I'd be staying put until I was evicted or it suited me.

YANBU - if she wants the benefit of tenants until the last possible stage, she has to give something in return. At very least she owes you two months' written notice with a fixed date in mind. She can do this if/when she gets a buyer.

I agree that it makes sense to offer fixed times for viewing each week (say, one weekday and one weekend day), or even an open day, but don't agree to viewings any time, or I guarantee you will at some stage come home and find people in your house unexpectedly.

I will say though that with all the will in the world, house buying is very often a slow process. I moved 18 months ago and we had no chain - we had bought our next house, and had first time buyers for our old house. Even though we were desperate to sell because our old house was vacant, and the buyers were desperate to move in because their rental was up, there were still complications which meant the house was empty for two full weeks. And we were trying so bloody hard to push the sale through!

Get your own plans in place and look after yourself - the alternative would be to move now into a short let which keeps you covered until August, leaving your landlord with no tenants. I'm sure she wouldn't want that.

Landlord is being extremely unreasonable. Don't remind her about giving notice in writing. Make her aware when she gives you the leaving date she does expect you to move out. That should cover you til its convenient for you to move!

Agree nadia we refused viewings on another rented house after we found the estate agent in my underwear drawer at a time he should never had been in as he had no viewings. Since then if we give permission to view its at a time we agree. You be surprised how helpful the estate agent gets and the landlord at that point. Doesnt effect your deposit. Talk to cab.

I'm a landlord too and think she is being totally unreasonable. Presumably she would wait to give notice until exchange so you would have 2 months from that date. She couldn't ask you to leave sooner since she hasn't yet given you notice - but it would be worth pointing this out to her.

Also I wouldn't bend over backwards to make the house tidy for viewings etc. You have no responsibility to do so.

Wait intl you get notice and then start plans. If i were youbi would get legal advise regarding whether you have been given notice already v

Landlord is BU. You need 2 months written notice and an exact date not ifs and buts. I would also be only as accomodating as suited me for viewings. Based on this as well if she hasn't given you notice by the start of June and you need out end of August I'd be submitting my own two months notice.

You're in a position of power here in some ways . She needs you to be in the house to keep paying her mortgage until the house is sold. As pps have said, she has to give you written notice of the 2 month date, not just tell you that it will be at least 2 months.

We were in your situation (with the toddler!). The agents were a nightmare, they'd just turn up, they'd squeeze in extra viewings, not turn up. It was awful. I refused in the end.

Set out your rules now to the agents AND your landlord so everyone knows where they stand.

As a landlady myself I would appreciate your willingness to accommodate viewings etc.
But I would not risk offering to let you stay till August as this may cause the sale to fall through, I would also understand that I would have to give you the full two months written notice.
I could offer reduced rent from now until sale, for example I rent for £700 a month but would be happy with £500 which would cost me £1000... very little to secure a good sale and give you the cash to deal with Augusts problem. Or a £1000 goodwill payment may be easier if you had to leave in July.
If the sale hadn't gone through I would be fine to let you stay.

I don't think your landlord appreciates how flexible you are being nor how tough a sale may be.YANBU

She wants it all ways doesn't she??she clearly isn't taking any thought of your needs and wants you to bend over backwards to help her in the short term.

A similar thing happened to us... They were thoughtless.. And wanted everything to benefit them...

You are not under any obligation to let people in... Or if you want to be nice say something like.. We are only allowing viewing say on sat morning.. It's completely unreasonable to expect you to maintain your home in show home condition on the off chance someone wants to view. Also are it clear that you want to be there on these visits. The reason I used was that my insurance was invalid if any damage occured or if they accidently left doors open.

She has to serve a S21 otherwise you're auto magically on a statutory periodic tenancy... a rolling contract .. See if s21 when you get it is valid CAB will advise.. Seems about a third are not. She cannot make you leave without it!! Regardless of what she says.

You could be in a position to a do a deal
.. She is playing nastily so should you. She is not your friend.

Say you'll only leave earlier if she'll pay your costs or whatever is beneficial to you

As the agent stuffed up our s21... We had all our moving costs paid for. It was a horrid time costing us loads in stress... But. Luckily little financially.

No advice to offer but just came on to say love the name 'Hurricane Toddler'! I hope you can come to a mutual agreement with your LL.

i would reply in writing to say that considering her requests for viewings you will require the 2 month notice period as stated in contract and that you will keep to the notice period required from you as stated in the contract - she can't have her cake and eat it!

Yes, I did think we weren't obliged to allow viewings. There's nothing specific in the lease about it. I think LL believes we are, though?

I am wary of pushing anything with her now in case she just gives us the 2 months notice (once she's found out she has to!) and we have to find somewhere with less than a 6-month lease - tricky enough, plus I don't have a contract/offer letter with salary yet so I don't know what we could find on DH's salary alone. Last resort, MIL would put us up (she is great but her house is tiny).

I am surprised LL doesn't want to give us any kind of flexibility though, since surely from her position alone it's best if we as tenants are willing to help out? Otherwise we don't really have much incentive to, say, clean the toddler's porridge off the floor before the estate agents come round to take photos, or not tell buyers about the dry rot and the leak and the difficult neighbours!