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Original poster

To think the Mohammed Emwazi debacle will mushroom and help UKIP?

52 replies

Arsenic · 27/02/2015 05:56

I've just been reading about CAGE and its personnel for two hours ( here and here for starters). The game they are playing is so shady and is going to drag us all down a rabbit warren.

The "multiculturalism doesn't work" brigade are going to have a feast.

The ripples from this are going to reach far.

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Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 05:57

And the timing is unfortunate, to say the least.

I am really worried by this. Someone tell me I'm over-reacting.

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ChameleonCircuit · 27/02/2015 07:54

I'm not sure whether it'll help UKIP - although they may try to use it to score points. However, I do not believe that someone who (in the words of the CAGE director) "is a gentle, beautiful man" would turn into the monster who is beheading humans just because he's been harassed (?) by the security services. So, have they named the wrong bloke, or is the director talking utter bollocks and Emwazi was always a murderous bastard?

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 08:05

I think he's talking bollocks. It turns out he (and CAGE) have form as apologists for jihadi terrorism.

And Emwazi was apparently radicalized while at uni. More than 6 years ago.

But, as you say, odd to try to make beheading humans an understandable reaction to ANYTHING.

The propaganda is becoming so subtle and insidious and it plays into all the wrong hands.

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Cherrychocolate · 27/02/2015 08:09

I couldn't believe what I was hearing yesterday on sky news. Seemed to me they were defending this guys actions. You have to be a certain type of person to commit acts like this....'beautiful' doesn't spring to mind. There can be no justification for what these people do, and the fact that anyone would sit on TV and not be absolutely appalled is very disturbing.

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 08:17

Have a look at the Wikipedia entry for CAGE (first link on the OP) , they are not what they seem.

That press conference was something else, wasn't it? Who was the chap in the middle chairing it?

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UncleT · 27/02/2015 08:37

People like this are not new or uncommon. For a long time now it has been the case that extremists gave been given a platform on news programmes.

The biggest challenge we face in avoiding this all being exploited by the likes of UKIP is the left needing to get serious about stamping on terrorism and extremism. People like the Green Party play right into the hands of the right, as do the likes of Clegg.

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 08:55

It's the platform this has given them that worries me. The scale.

This isn;t the usual roundabout of Newsnight and Channel 4 news.

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Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 08:57

I don't think stamping out will occur at all. This weird emotional blackmail and distortion of the community relations 'card' works. It's clever.

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RedToothBrush · 27/02/2015 09:01

Have any of you watched 'Immigration Street' that c4 broadcast this week.

Its VERY thought provoking and definitely not the programme you might think.

I think it shows the harm UKIP are doing on playing on extremists like this because of the platform they have been given.

ConferencePear · 27/02/2015 09:01

I am fed up of people playing the victim. If Emwazi was such a wonderful human being how could he be turned into a monster by the security services ? I'm fed up of excuses.

ghostland · 27/02/2015 09:08

Probably. If some Muslims are radicalised by things the West do then presumably some white working class people will be radicalised by things Muslims do (but instead of chopping off heads, they will vote UKIP).

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 09:52

It's like a terrible rhetorical spiral.

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onedayiwillmissthis · 27/02/2015 09:54

the 'Mohamed Emwazi debacle' ?Hmm

Bambambini · 27/02/2015 09:55

You can't compare the effect that the West has had in the Middle East etc with the effect muslims have had on the West. We haven't had our country overrun and bombed, our children terrified, killed or maimed, our whole life and country destabilised. I don't think it's that surprising that some young people who might be easily influenced and starting to get interested in politics and what's going on in the world become radicalised or feel shut out from society. I think it could be very hard for a young muslim growing up in the west these days and perhaps feeling torn.

This guy was born in Kuwait and spent his early years there so not born and bred in the UK.

Running off to join the likes of Isis and chopping people's heads off is another thing entirely and I can't get my head round that at all.

ghostland · 27/02/2015 10:04

Bambambini, what a load of rubbish. Millions of Jews were murdered in the holocaust yet I don't remember a huge terrorist campaign against Germans after the war.

Muslims countries have ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Christians, Jews, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, Armenians, Hindus etc in the last 100 years but none of these groups have been "radicalised". I am so sick of hearing that the Muslims are exceptionally unique in their suffering. They are not and they have been the perpetrators of just as many massacres and ethnic cleansing as non-Muslims (and the majority of Muslim murder victims were killed by other Muslims in places like Iraq, Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan).

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 10:13

the 'Mohamed Emwazi debacle'

"To think that the revelations about Mohammed Emwazi and the reaction this week will mushroom and help UKIP?" wouldn't fit as a thread title.

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ragged · 27/02/2015 10:15

CAGE's statements annoyed me so much. Emwazi was only 'lovely' to CAGE staff because the thought they were the right kind of Muslims. He'd cut their heads off in a heartbeat for being anything else.

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 10:18

Bambambini, what a load of rubbish. Millions of Jews were murdered in the holocaust yet I don't remember a huge terrorist campaign against Germans after the war.

Indeed.

I mentioned Primo Levi on another thread. He, the holocaust, Soviet Gulags, various global atrocities and the very dignified, human, constructive actions and lives of millions of survivors have been on my mind since I heard that press conference yesterday.

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funnyossity · 27/02/2015 10:19

It was an insight into a certain state of mind!

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 10:19

Ah but ragged he was 'beautiful' and 'gentle' and brought them 'posh baclava'Hmm

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SamG76 · 27/02/2015 10:20

It's ironic that while denying any connection to radicalization, Westminster Uni was due to host a speaker yesterday evening who called for the killing of gays, apostates, etc. Having repeatedly insisted that there was nothing wrong, they cancelled it pretty fast when they realized the press were on to them!

ragged · 27/02/2015 10:23

lol @ Arsenic.

Like those pretty British girls who just snuck into Syria, I bet they could whip up a mean curry for people they loved. Or the stunning Bosnian-Austrian girls who ran off to be Jihadi brides.

At my most cynical I just hope that they all earn Darwin awards.

ghostyslovesheep · 27/02/2015 10:25

maybe it's what extremists WANT - they don't want people to embrace multi multiculturalism - they want a culture of hate and mistrust - it helps them recruit more people

There is no way you could defend his actions - no way on earth

but it would be a shame to play into the hands of the extremists on all sides

Original poster
Arsenic · 27/02/2015 10:31

How long had the Uni being denying a problem with the speaker Sam?

There is a real issue about what happens when the numbers trying to return increase ragged. I suppose a good proportion will die out there.

ghosty I believe you have something there.

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ragged · 27/02/2015 10:33

of course extremists don't want multiculturalism; by definition they want mono-culturalism (their brand of mono-culture only).

Yes they foster hate & mistrust: read The Islamist by Ed Husain. He was sucked in and said it was because of a narrow and very intolerant interpretation of what it meant to be a pious Muslim.

Right at a point in life when most insecure & vulnerable, trying to find identity, and wanting certainty. DS is 15yo & very attracted to military life; he wants the certain roles & rules & hierarchy, throw a little glory & excitement in there too, what's not to like?