To think the Mohammed Emwazi debacle will mushroom and help UKIP?

[Arsenic]

I've just been reading about CAGE and its personnel for two hours ( here and here for starters). The game they are playing is so shady and is going to drag us all down a rabbit warren.

The "multiculturalism doesn't work" brigade are going to have a feast.

The ripples from this are going to reach far.

Having read that wiki link about them, I'm a bit disturbed to read the Anita Roddick Foundation has given them a grant of 120,000....

Won't be shopping at the Body Shop anymore then...

I was shocked at how much air time was given to people justifying his actions. They kept going back to the same argument 'but what MADE him take such drastic actions' 'feeling disenfranchised & persecuted' blah blah blah. Bullshit, the blokes a fucking evil bastard pure & simple nothing to do with religion/race or anything else. It's the same old shit, we have been made to feel that tackling issues of religious extremism or immigration makes people racist. It doesn't at all & the government need to grow a back bone. Who can feel proud of a country that lets thousands of vulnerable children be abused because people are scared of being called racist? The 'left' brigade have made this is clouded line IMO & pose a huge threat to OUR right to free speech. Rant over.

Arsenic - quite some time - here is a link

www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/02/university-of-westminster-islamic-society-to-host-homophobic-preacher

I was taken aback by the description of a kind and beautiful person. I rationalised it as someone who'd known this man and who was trying to make sense of what he had done. I didn't know how else to explain it tbh.

Kind and beautiful people however do not cut off people's heads. They just don't.

I am more concerned that his actions are celebrated in some quarters of the world and among very radicalised people here. That's what we need to be addressing and I would vote for any party who could address it effectively.

I'm a bit disturbed to read the Anita Roddick Foundation has given them a grant of 120,000....

And the Joseph Rowntree Foundation!

Why do the unis allow this? Is it fear? Fear of backlash?

Ukip schmick...elephant in the room is that worldwide people are realising that they are the Infidel and thus the desired dead.

I think "helping UKIP" is a kinda minor concern here.

I'd be more worried about the blowback from this situation kicking something really serious off. In the world of reactionary movements, there are far, far worse possibilities than UKIP.

arsenic it's not the Joseph Rowntree Foundation its another quaker group with Joseph Rowntree in its name.

Thanks for the correction respite. I'm not sure how I misread that.

I'm mightily relieved it wasn't the JRF, I must say, but still....

There is still a question as to why a Quaker group is funding this sort of organization - it is not exactly pacifist in outlook....

Clearly some are taken in

It's the Joseph Rowntree Charitable Trust jrct.org.uk ''addressing conflict and injustice'' and the grant seems to be a one-off in November 2011.

It's good that they can't say they have been silenced. Maybe the Quakers have a point to encourage talk.

But their opinions then do need to be challenged publicly.

I did catch the start of Daily Politics where Andrew Neil was saying he couldn't get a rep from CAGE today and that they were trying to get one for the Sunday show.

I was shocked and worried. If sane intelligent people think that joining ISIS and torturing and terrorising people is understandable it makes me think that we have a lot worse to come.

I thought exactly this upon reading the news, OP. UKIP are the only party that will benefit from this. Especially since the release of the net immigration figures yesterday.

Body Shop is owned by L'Oreal now, i think.

thehumanjam your post is food for thought. I have always rationalised the radicalisation of these young men and women as what happens when poverty and poor education collide in the crucible of a rampantly materialistic culture. But you make a really valid point: 'Jihadii John' is a graduate; the three young girls who have travelled to Syria are supposedly all Grade A students. These are intelligent people who are still not smart enough to see past religious brainwashing. And none of them seem to have come from a very poor background. I can only think that the legacy 7/7 is ongoing.

I can't believe that so many people could turn into murderous unrepentant bastards just because of religion otherwise I would lose all hope in humanity.

These are intelligent people who are still not smart enough to see past religious brainwashing.

I'm not sure one does see past brainwashing (?)

If you try to reconstruct or understand what kind of information landscape these young people live in - their media diet, which will be largely obscure web content - reinforced by their RL friends and not offset by mainstream media consumption or anything in the national curriculum or their wider life to give context or counterpoint....

I can see that young people could be marooned;

Living in inner city ghettoes of social housing
Immigrant parents with limited footholds in wider British society
Low family income, no money spare for forays or cultural enrichment
Inner city comprehensives that might valiantly battle to deliver the NC fantastically, but not much social diversity somewhere like Bethnal Green Comp

Etc etc

Okay, they access pop and trainers and french verbs and the periodic table but nothing of political or cultural substance from broader society.

And the idea of bloodthirsty terrorism might not be mainstream, but it's fairly clear now that the underlying "globally oppressed muslims" narrative is endemic in whatever this large urban, MLE speaking, young demographic are consuming online.

It's not a big step.

I saw a depressing report on the telly saying that large amounts of young Muslims are leaving the Maldives for Syria.
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/26/paradise-jihadis-maldives-islamic-extremism-syria

OP, has it occurred to you that perhaps "multiculturalism doesn't work"? And that perhaps the evidence all around us speaks loudly of its complete and utter failure?

It is saddening that in the face of terrorism and Islamism the first thought of people is to worry about UKIP. Why do you do this? Why do you worry about British people of largely conservative values and how they might vote?

Oh no, never mind those people over there sawing off aid worker's heads, UKIP might bring back grammar schools! Who cares about the man being burned alive in the cage, UKIP want to introduce a points based immigration system - they're the real fascists!

Honestly it is perverse. I understand that one can feel impotent in the face of such brutality and that it can be tempting to re-channel anger and hatred at something closer to home. But this sort of thing is really damaging. When you deny people a democratic outlet for their very reasonable concerns about massive, unassimilable immigration, you contribute to paving the way for something much worse to rise in future.

Let's suppose for a moment scatter, that 'multiculturalism doesn't work' (it's a broad statement but let's run with it), where do we go from there? What do we do with that damascene revelation? We'll just run the tape back to 1946 and do it all differently, shall we? Just like that?

Do UKIP really imagine they can undo the past 60 years somehow? Where shall we stick the millions of Brits who aren't of Anglo heritage? Got a good policy? Will we let people of mixed inheritance or family choose?

What earthly good is it to pursue ideas that multiculturalism is unworkable. It HAS to work.

And as for the idea that this is the only aspect of the whole murderous, bloody business that worries me; really? Is that really what you think I'm saying?

It's about one wing antagonising the opposite wing and perpetuating the ill-feeling, the reactions, the whole spiral of antagonism and resentment.

Arsenic the schools in London have been doing a lot better than elsewhere fro their students. I don't get the disenfranchised due to iniquities of western society bit tbh for the young Londoners.

Try the north!

Most likely it's the company they have been keeping, online or in RL.