To refuse this leave request for first anniversary holiday

[Clockingoff]

A woman in work was married a year ago on Sunday. Her husband surprised her with tickets to New York for St Patrick's day and a few days before and after (I'm in Ireland). The problem is that because it's a holiday time here, a number of staff have already booked days off that week and I really can't afford to let anyone else go without other staff being asked to work overtime (which will eat into the overtime budget.)

The same thing happened for her 30th birthday last year. He booked a surprise holiday to Paris and I got one day's notice that she would need three days off (and we had a large conference during one of those days so I had to 'borrow' someone from another team to cover).

I hate to say no as the tickets have been bought and she's very excited. But on the other hand I'm getting a bit fed up of these surprises that put me and colleagues in a difficult situation.

WIBU to say that due to shortage of staff it's just not possible to approve her leave, and come across as a complete cow.

What sort of gobshite keeps booking "surprise" holidays without making sure the people involved can actually take the time off? Don't let her have the time.

If he makes a habit if this she can surely see it coming; "surprise" or no surprise.

drbonnie, surely she wouldn't have the brass neck to throw a sickie after being refused it as leave?

Telling her she can have it unpaid seems fair to me, but tell her at the same time that this is a one off and she will have to book her leave early or risk not getting it in future.

Happened at my work (not my staff just a dept located nearby), a husband and wife both worked in the team and requested leave for a weeks holiday that they had already booked, it was declined for business reasons and they went anyway claiming they were sick! Came back tanned and glowing to a disciplinary meeting for gross misconduct

This not grant the holiday would be a negative action on your part as the only Impact is to overtime budget.

I would suggest verbal recorded counselling about holiday rules with employee concerned and a full briefing to all staff about holiday bookings. Get them to sign one point brief to acknowledge holiday policy.

And stop posting on mumsnet about confidential employment issues of your employees

I would refuse authorised I.e paid leave and say that holiday request has been denied however if she still wishes to go she will not be paid and that includes any bank holiday payment that would have been due.

Follow it up with written confirmation of this and a copy of her contract with the holiday reporting procedure highlighted.

We have to submit a form 4 weeks before the start of the leave. It is a small company though and someone not coming in with only a couple of days notice would really screw up the work schedule.

ClockingOff - can I ask what happened when this happened last time? Did you ask her to warn her dh that you wouldn't be able to grant a second, last minute holiday request for a 'surprise' holiday?

I think you have a sensible solution to this holiday request, but I would be making it crystal clear that you won't be doing this again, so she needs to tell her dh to stop with the surprise holidays.

For the future you need to have a rule that only for example 2 people can have leave at the same time. First come first served and anyone wanting to take emergency holiday will be at the direction of the manager so eg 2 people have leave booked and someones mum dies then that would be an exceptional circumstance. Someone having a. Surprise holiday isn't.

I would never do this. I arranged a surprise trip for dh and so firstly I arranged his time off with his boss.

I think husband should be contacting you to arrange these surprises. It's just not on, I've granted secret surprise breaks before but they've always been at least 2 months in advance.
I agree unpaid leave as it has to be covered

Doing, 'the only Impact is to overtime budget'.
A company's overtime budget is pretty important, especially if you're the person in charge of it and have to answer to your managers about it. And that's assuming she can find staff able and willing to do the overtime.

'And stop posting on mumsnet about confidential employment issues of your employees'

The OP says she's changed some details.

I still think the OP has the best solution: it's the employee's responsibility to cover her work, or she takes the leave unpaid.

You have to say no. Her leave is costing you more than anyone else's. If I was her colleague I would be pissed off if you let her go.

And definitely get this post removed.

Beware that her colleagues don't start booking 'unpaid leave' for when they want some time off but they've run out of annual leave. They'll see this as a precedent set.

If by a miracle you can arrange coverage then let her know that this is the second and last time.

If you deny her request is completaly understandable.

turkey, I think the OP can make it clear that this is a one-off, not a precedent.

YANBU.

You would be surprised how many people here on MN are from Ireland (or have Irish relatives). But even if they themselves were not here, it might be a cousin or other relative that might hear them say about their holiday and put it together with what you have written, and know who it is. With Facebook someone who last year posted about their surprise trip last year, and another trip this year coming up..... it is surprising how small Ireland's gossip circuit works too.

Having got help I think it might be an idea to request that this thread gets removed by MNHQ.

I would think my husband was bonkers if he started interfering with my working life by contacting my boss about holiday time. Absolutely do not engage with her DH about things like this in the future- you don't need to be negotiating with him at all. Surprise holidays should be booked at the weekend or BH when the person clearly has the time off. I would go ballistic if my DH attempted to insert himself in this way- massive imposition/awkwardness.

only never underestimate the brass neck and cunning of some people!

I'm from Ireland, willitbe, and amazingly enough I have no idea who the op is talking about... It's not that small.

drbonnie, yes, you're not wrong

What is your holiday request policy, op? How much notice does your company require?
If she's a valuable employee, being available for over time and being there when she's needed, if she goes the extra mile then I would definitely approve but would remind all stuff what the rules are and tell her it is the last time.
You sound nice op and looks like you are genuinely worried about how this will affect the business, but if I was in her position and felt that my manager was bu (she is giving 3 weeks notice) I would quit my job. That's it I've said it :p

Have you turned anyone else's holiday request down, due to lack of cover, over this same period?

I would be pretty pissed off as a member of your team had you said no to me, and then someone else floats off because her DH arranged a surprise!

Your solution seems sensible to me.

I have no kids and am posting from ireland... It's not me though!

But taking upaid leave doesn't solve the problem of needing cover at work. I work for a very small organisation, fortunately my colleague and I co-ordinate all our leave - it wouldn't matter if we took 'unpaid leave' or not - the fact is the organisation cannot run without one of us being there. There is no one else to defer to. If one of us was seriously ill or died we would just have to close - which is presumably what the Op wants to avoid.

So it's too simplistic to say 'just take unpaid leave'.