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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think all the targeted pensioner benefits ie bus pass, TV and winter fuel should be abolished...

382 replies

Figmentofmyimagination · 23/02/2015 08:44

.... And the equivalent amount added to the pension credit of low income pensioners. That would overcome the logistical/cost based arguments against means testing these benefits.

OP posts:
blackheartsgirl · 23/02/2015 19:29

don't think they should be abolished, just means tested. I'm sick of people like my mother with nearly hundred grand in the bank, no mortgage and living with her latest squeeze claiming dla saying she can't walk far yet fucks off on foreign holidays 3 times a year and goes on the jetskis and walks loads.

she was born in 1949 so no fighting in the war either

McFox · 23/02/2015 19:49

Nothing that's been said so far can convince me that people like my GM, sitting at home with so many thousands in the bank (and even one account totalling more than £20k that she forgot existed because she never needed it) and hundreds coming in every month in pensions, need benefits like WFA, bus pass and free tv.

Her and her husband have almost the same coming in from pensions as my parents who work full time do. Until ill health stopped them travelling, they took at least 2 long holidays a year. They've never travelled by bus in their life, always taxis, even to the supermarket. They went out 3/4 nights a week. They have no mortgage, no debts and no worries.

Now yes they've worked, but my GM retired at 50. She's now in her mid 80s and wants for nothing. Does she really need benefits?

Me, I've worked since I was 14. I'm well educated and have the debts to show for it. When I was made redundant at 28, I lost my house. When the same thing happened 4 years later, I received no benefits for months due to jobcentre bullshit. I lost my rented flat and the deposit I'd put down on it as a result. I had to walk miles to the jobcentre because there's no such thing are free bus travel for people with zero income. I used to go for a walk to look for pennies that people had dropped. How is that fair?

I'm now almost 40, have a baby, a well paid career and still rent. I'll most likely never get my own house again.

It makes me so angry to think of all the people scraping by at the moment; people who should be supported by benefits to help them get on their feet, to feed and house their children, to get into work or education, and improve their lives and the lives of their children. But no - these benefits have been and continue to be blatantly eroded and these people demonised while pensioners like my gran are handed money that they don't need, and don't even notice coming in.

That's so far from fair that there's no defending it.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 23/02/2015 20:02

Nomama, why should anyone, anywhere start a thread instead of just googling what people have already said about it?

blackheartsgirl · 23/02/2015 23:34

mcfox I agree with you, you put it better than I did. My mum has hundreds coming in every month including money from my dads pension which she still gets even though she is living with someone else now. She's also never used her free bus pass, she drives everywhere, she's just bought a brand new car.

I will also never own my own house again and will rent for the rest of my life too. I'm heartily sick of rich pensioners. My mum used her winter fuel allowance as holiday spends when she went to egypt on her latest holiday.

Those pensioners who are in genuine need like my neighbour deserve that money more than she does,

Permanentlyexhausted · 23/02/2015 23:46

I've only read a couple of pages but it seems to me that if the government were to take any benefits away from pensioners, they would do well to spend it on educating a large proportion of the people on this thread. They could start with all those who seem to believe that the only war ever waged in the history of humankind was WWII!

I know several pensioners who were barely more than toddlers during WWII but who certainly have fought on behalf of the UK in other wars since then. Or does it not count if Hitler wasn't involved?

Caff2 · 24/02/2015 00:03

I find these threads amazing. I think I am probably a kind of mumsnet average age, 30s, and I feel none of this bitterness and rage towards my parents or others of their generation. It seems to me that my parents were having the same sorts of issues at my age with kids and wotnot that I am now. My parents were dealing with teens and toddlers and housing and education and all of the worries we are all having now! My mum and dad are 68 this year and their last child stopped being a teen in 2004!

I sometimes wonder if some posters forget that, unless they're thinking of dying prematurely, they will also be pensioners at some point.

And as for "pensioners vote, so that's why they get pandered to" - well - all adults are allowed, aren't they? Why not do it, if that's the problem? I have since I was first allowed in 1997.

HelenaDove · 24/02/2015 00:40

Someone on twitter tweeted today that their parent has received the 25p Age Addition for the over 80s taking the parent OUT of the bracket for receiving pension guarantee credit.

MythicalKings · 24/02/2015 07:05

So much nastiness and resentment on this thread. It seems that some people have issues with their parents and are projecting these issues onto a whole generation who will be dead soon anyway.

It wasn't all wine and roses for the post war babies. Every generation has its own battles and difficulties. To generalise is lazy. Some were able to take advantage of what was on offer and others weren't. Just the same as this generation.

My DCs are adults and they and their friends are buying their own houses, having holidays abroad, driving new or nearly new cars. Most have degrees and are taking advantage of the free childcare, generous family allowance high (free) pre school nursery provision that their generation gets.

I don't project that onto the rest of their generation and say they are all having it easier than we did.

The bitterness will eat you up.

Thymeout · 24/02/2015 07:29

Yes - what I mainly take away from this thread is the dysfunctional relationship between generations with some posters.

I care about the benefits families get, because my children have young families. They care about pensioner benefits, because they help me. We all care about benefits for the disabled, the poor, the unemployed because we thank our lucky stars we're not in those categories at the moment, tho' have been in the past.

That's how a civilised society works.

McFox · 24/02/2015 07:39

MythicalKings, where on earth is this free childcare coming from? You can regularly see threads on here where people are struggling with childcare costs, can't afford to go back to work etc. A report in my local paper last week stated: "parents who want to send children to nursery for 25 hours a week for four years before starting school now face a total average bill of nearly £22,000." Our own bill - at the current rate and hours our DS will be in nursery - is £29,000. Free? I wish.

SomewhereIBelong · 24/02/2015 07:41

totally agree Thymeout,

though there is the little elephant in the room there - we can't afford it any more without raising taxes for the people who always pay for it all (most of the mumsnet demographic)

DidoTheDodo · 24/02/2015 07:44

An observation....
All those of you moaning about your filthy rich parents or grandparents, perhaps you have hopes of inheriting in the future? So everything the previous generation were so very fortunate to be given (not my opinion) will come to you anyway!

Feel the irony.

MythicalKings · 24/02/2015 07:54

McFox - here it is

www.gov.uk/free-early-education

That's 570 hours more free childcare per child than I got. But I'm happy that it's now available. Not resentful because I didn't get it.

McFox · 24/02/2015 08:23

Ah, I see that you've read the government headline on that - it doesn't actually mean 15 free hours per week in many cases, but you could find that out with very little research effort.

Anyway, I think that you're entirely and deliberately missing the point here. The fact is that thee are thousands of people across the country who are unable to feed themselves and their families. Their lives are wilfully being destroyed by an elite who couldn't give a flying toss, but who are prepared to pay the elderly for votes.

Now I don't gave everything that my parents or grandparents had by my age, but I'm not resentful. I am however angry that there are people who will never, ever get the opportunity to get anywhere close to having anything because scarce resources are diverted from people in need to people who are not.

It sounds to me like your DC are lucky in comparison to most people I know, some of whom are university educated professionals, some of whom are not. That shouldn't blind you from seeing what other people are going through, unless of course you just don't care.

It is supremely lazy debating to suggest that because people are angry about the Tories cynical buying of the elderly vote, we are all resentful and jealous. If wishing for a bit of common sense and fairness in this country is wrong, then I'm happy to be wrong.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 24/02/2015 08:39

How strange to suggest that anyone is jealous or raging against the elderly. I am opposed to any universal benefit, young or old.

Nomama · 24/02/2015 08:46

Goodbye Read my posts again and you will see that I didn't mention Google at all!

I did say that a quick search of previous and very recent posts here would bring up some very long, wide ranging threads on the same topic. There have been many recently, so it would have been hard to miss them.

I wonder at the reasoning behind starting yet another one, just as the last one drops off page one? Is it for a reasoned debate, or is it so that more people can vent their spleens regarding what the older generation does or does not have?

It just seems to be a guaranteed anger fest - especially when most people seem to have responded to the inflammatory headline of this post, rather than the content of the OP!

McFox · 24/02/2015 08:47

Strange, insulting and very telling I would say. It says a lot more about them than it does those who disagree.

merrymouse · 24/02/2015 08:52

I am very pro universal benefits. I don't think £250 will make much difference either way. If boris is providing free bus passes to the over 60s, it is a clear sign that it doesn't cost much for him to do this.

On the other hand, if there are loads of pensioners who can afford to be on a permanent cruise, clearly they can afford to pay more tax. We seem to be in this permanent argument about benefits, with very little discussion of tax. (Unless it's politicians saying people and companies are really naughty to avoid tax and somebodyelse really should do something about it).

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 24/02/2015 08:53

Well to be precise, MN does use Google but that's just semantics. I could have equally said, why wouldn't anyone just search any topic instead of creating a new post.

Somewhere there's someone who's tired of seeing what you'd like to talk about.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 24/02/2015 08:54

On the other hand, if there are loads of pensioners who can afford to be on a permanent cruise, clearly they can afford to pay more tax.

Yes. Whatever they are paying, they should have paid more so that we could prevent this from happening.

merrymouse · 24/02/2015 09:01

I'm not singling out pensioners to pay more tax - I am saying that clearly there are plenty of people around now who could pay more tax and some of these will be pensioners.

That is how universal benefits work - you pay in according to ability and benefit according to need.

Margaretinbloom · 24/02/2015 09:16

This makes me so angry, the current lifestyle that people have is down to the hard work of the generation before them - budget airlines, central heating, double glazing, the internet and apple to name a few.

Pensioners deserve all they get and more, most like me are not loaded and still have to count the pennies. I want to go visit a friend today, but I've spend a lot this month, so will probably have to get the bus rather than use the car.

thegreylady · 24/02/2015 09:28

I don't know why I keep commenting on these threads but I will try again. Dh and I have 5 dc all aged between 40 and 45. So counting their spouses that is 10 adults with 9 dc aged 6 to 17. The adults jobs range from plumber to psychiatrist. Two families are in the South (Hertfordshire and Surrey) one is in the Midlands and two live abroad.
All of them work, all are house owners (one mortgage free) and none have significant debts. None of my dgc are privately educated and none of the families own a second home.
We gave them all a small cash boost (£5000) when they married and have given a little help if needed. Our total savings atm are £1000 , no nought missed off. Why on earth can't the Government do something about the level of poverty in some folks' lives and stop them sniping at the elderly. I agree that the disabled should have much higher benefits. I think parents and grandparents who are wealthy should give their kids a hand ;however I also think you need to address why there is such poverty and what should be done. Taking small benefits away from old people won't help that is for sure.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat · 24/02/2015 09:28

That is how universal benefits work - you pay in according to ability and benefit according to need.
Isn't that the opposite of how universal benefits work?

I'm not singling out pensioners to pay more tax - I am saying that clearly there are plenty of people around now who could pay more tax and some of these will be pensioners.

I thought it was clear that you were singling out people who have enough money to travel a lot (not pensioners). Is that enough for you to know that they should have paid more in taxes?

ihategeorgeosborne · 24/02/2015 09:29

Except they've taken away child benefit from people who pay more tax, so the universality thing isn't working for us.

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