To think all the targeted pensioner benefits ie bus pass, TV and winter fuel should be abolished...

[Figmentofmyimagination]

.... And the equivalent amount added to the pension credit of low income pensioners. That would overcome the logistical/cost based arguments against means testing these benefits.

There are deserving cases either side of the economic boom,people who fought for our liberty today, and those people who made a nice killing on the war time black market or ran protection rackets. There are young people really struggling through no fault of their own and there are those who take full advantage of society's generosity... You cant judge whole groups... It's daft!

Means testing costs loads.. Often more than it saves in eg wfa 'saved'. ! Listening to my well off elderly relatives... Anyone would think they are forced at gun point to take the wfa... They didnt like it when I said charities would be glad of a cheque from them to the tune of the wfa.... They were keen to moan about how they didnt need it... But still took it

I think there is a point to means testing the benefits though. Same as chb, those on a higher tax band don't qualify.
fwiw I have no problem with chb being rationed that way.
However I don't think the money should be swallowed up by austerity. It should be redistributed into providing quality elderly care. the state provision is extremely basic and overstretched. there is a lot of elderly who need it in their own homes to maintain their health, dignity and a quality of life and therefore cost the state less.

If pensioners don't think about future care provision and benefit redistribution then they will be up shit Creek when they need care. At that.point they won't matter as they can't vote.

'We grew up with rationing and little in the way of material goods that everyone expects now, but with the benefit of a welfare state and a fairly stable economy. That has changed out of all recognition. The war shit we did fight was for womens` equality, for the rights of gay people and minority ethnic people, for many of the rights which you enjoy today as women particularly. We are also the generation that gave the world Stephen Hawkin, the secrets of DNA, the internet, personal computers, etc etc. No, no need to say thank you, just stop being so shortsided and bitter. Pensioners should go cold at 80 while you push out another sprog and hold your hand out to the taxpayer for help with childcare, tax credits, child benefit, free education, maternity benefits...fuck off.'

LOL at bitter! Because everyone who disagrees with these universal benefits for pensioners (the rations ended in 1954, so many now drawing pensions did not 'grow up' with rations. Diddums) has loads of 'sprogs' and is in receipt of benefits.

Free education? Primary and secondary school has been free for a long while now.

PMSL that a generation 'gave us' all these huge favours, so are entitled to monies they may not need and the country can ill afford and so the world owes you a thank you. Ding dong, EVERY generation makes strides in many areas! One generation gave us the atomic bomb. Shall we be thankful for this?

A universal benefit acknowledges that some sectors of society have more expenses that others. It costs to have children and it costs to be old.

It's paid for by tax. Rich parents and rich pensioners pay more tax.

I don't see the problem.

The thing is Thyme, child benefit is no longer universal. It was the chosen benefit by this government to be axed, despite the people losing it paying more tax.

Yes - that was a big mistake - as many people argued at the time. I think it's grossly unfair that 2 parents on incomes just below the threshold have cb, but one parent earning over it loses out. But there are still some universal benefits for parents.

You'd have the same sort of problems if you did the same with pensioner benefits. And you'd save a lot less money because these are relatively small amounts. The last time I saw the actual figures quoted, they were talking about benefits only for those on pension credit. i.e. only poor pensioners.

And who defines 'rich'? With cb, people were nodding their heads when Nick Clegg said in Parliament that he and his wife didn't really need it. Then it turned out that their idea of 'rich' was an income over £40,000 odd, which is v little to bring up a family in the South East.

Not many people still living actually fought in any wars. I too was born in 1944. We had rationing for a good deal of my childhood. My dad fought in WW2 and was an invalid (MS) by the time I was 11. We grew up in a time of massive inflation, high interest rates and taxation. We benefitted from Grammar Schools and maintenance grants. We went on protest marches for peace and struck for equality of pay. We fought for a better world for our dc and it seems that we lost. I would campaign that no old person died in the cold, alone. That they never feared lack of food or basic comforts and that they always had enough money for the odd treat.
I feel the same about children/ young families but at least there is some possibility that they can work to improve things. I'd give up WFA and bus pass but I worked damned hard for my pension and to pay off my mortgage. I am one of the lucky ones but so many are not.

Yabu. Leave pensioners alone.

Expat: the rations ended in 1954, so many now drawing pensions did not 'grow up' with rations. Diddums

You didn't do your sums. Anyone claiming state pension today will have been affected by rationing. The first batch of pensioners that weren't affected can't claim until 2020 under the current rules.

YADNBU.
They took away my child benefit easy enough last year. My DM and IL's are by no means very rich, but even they admit do not need many of these benefits. The mentality of much of the elder generation is that even when they can afford something they won't bloody well even spend the money! I have nursed people living in almost squalor, to find out they had thousands when they died, yet still wouldn't put the fire on when they were cold..heating allowance or not.

The point someone made several pages ago about their houses were cheap as chips, £10k etc. Their salaries were also a pittance if we are to compare it to today's money - so it's all relevant. It was still difficult to get mortgages.

I see both sides of the argument - not sure where I stand. But my dad will pay tax on his final pension and all other income so I don't have a problem with giving him a 'tax-break' in wfa and state pension. I know if I am in the same position I'd claim too.

CB should have been kept universal though.

The government has its priorities wrong, I agree-- but please don't start again with the same old story that all baby boomers are self-interested smug bastards.

I think it is good to encourage elderly people off the roads with free bus passes - although clearly this will only work in areas with a good bus service.

I think there is certainly a case to be made for the universal bus pass - for example as a means of addressing social isolation and a way of discouraging older drivers from driving. However the scheme is reported to cost around £1 billion to run. Central government funding is supposed to enable the worst affected local authorities to recover most of the cost, but where there is a shortfall, it has to be met by cutting other transport services, or cutting the number of buses on offer.

As a non-driver, I'm actually quite grateful that there are free bus pass users on the bus because it keeps the service running during off peak periods. However I am often in the minority as a paying passenger. In my region, bus fares for those who pay (Stagecoach) have gone up significantly in recent years - I expect one reason why they are higher is because paying passengers are funding those who are subsidised. Is this a bad thing? Well yes if, for example, you are trying to get to a JSA appointment at the job centre, or an interview, and your weekly JSA is only £57.35 a week.

The thing about age is that we all get older - universal benefits work because it knits us all together as a society. But the problem is - who among us really believes that these universal benefits will still be around in, say, 15 years time?

Typo - relative

So what?! So there was rationing until 60 years ago and a war that ended almost 70 years ago. Every generation has hardships and troubles. What's affordable now has changed, except if you're a pensioner in receipt of universal benefits.

Everyone is being told they have to put up with greater and greater austerity, from a government that continues to borrow more and more, except one group of people.

And so everyone is supposed to put up and shut up because there was rationing and a war in the past?

My concern is that many (most?) Tories are ideologically opposed to universal benefits of any kind - including the NHS.

I don't think it matters if rich OAPS have free bus passes and wfa - the difference can be met through taxation. Equally I think all children should receive child benefit. However, apparently you can't win an election by promising more tax.

YANBU

I think free bus passes should be means tested, and then available to anyone on an income below a certain level, pensioner or not.

My neighbour is currently looking for a job, A return bus fare to the city centre for our village is £6.20. He has to pay that every time he signs on, every time he attends the job centre etc etc.

Meanwhile my parents have free bus passes. They live in a very nice house and have just booked themselves a holiday to Australia, travelling business class.

It doesn't make sense.

'Yabu. Leave pensioners alone.'

Yes, but fuck the disabled, the working poor and many young people.

LOL at the previous poster trying to take credit for Stephen Hawking.

I think you'll find Stephen Hawking- and possibly at a push Mr and Mrs Hawking snr- gave the world Stephen Hawking.

My neighbour is currently looking for a job, A return bus fare to the city centre for our village is £6.20. He has to pay that every time he signs on, every time he attends the job centre etc etc.

The problem is you remove the pensioners and oops, nobody seems to be using that service any more, do we really need it?

I think cutting anybody's benefits is a back door to cutting all benefits even further.

I don't understand how someone thinks it's ok, when the country is skint to give people
(Who don't actually need it) these benefits.
It makes no sense.

As said above. Disabled people are being hammered by this government. But granny needs her WFA whilst sitting in Spain!

The bus pass keeps a lot of people from making car-journeys who ought not to be on the road. It also keeps older people healthy and active. Of course some might prefer them to die younger and not block a job, a house, or a pension!

I'm sure the super rich - of all ages - will be delighted to hear that some people think pensioners have got all the money.

60-62 is old?