To think the government consistently underestimates the actual cost of childcare?

[MsMittens]

Another day another report about rising childcare costs. But what strikes me is that the figures referred to in these reports are significantly lower than the amounts actually paid for childcare (particularly in London and the South East). By way of example our DD is in nursery 4 days per week at a cost of £1,023 per month so annual cost is over £12,200 per annum and that is not even a full time place. We also have an au pair (I accept that may be a bit of a luxury but we have no family nearby to help out and both work full time in demanding jobs). So if we include au pair costs you are looking at £15,000 per annum. That is for 1 child under 3! If others are paying similar amounts (which I am guessing is the case as DDs nursery is oversubscribed), then these reports are grossly inaccurate and the Gov has no idea of the scale of the problem. AIBU to wonder where on earth the Gov gets its figures from?

This just enrages me as with costs like this of course it barely pays for some families to have both parens at work when childcare costs are this high and what generally happens is women leave the workforce (great if it is out of choice to be SAHM but not great if it is due to necessity). And don't even get me started on how hard it must be for single parent families. I just feel like the Gov cannot possibly assist parents if they have no idea of the actual costs involved.

chocolate no matter how many times you say it's OK, it doesn't alter the fact that IT IS ILLEGAL TO CHARGE TOP UP FEES>
believe me, I know.

MrsPiggie: the government average figure is £6k in that link, so I suspect the government are working with very similar figures. It's just that the average figure (which includes all the people using PT childcare mixed with grandparent care or complex arrangements that minimise the amount of childcare parents need) is never going to represent what people who need FT childcare pay. The government definitely do this on purpose because they want to pretend the help they offer is more than a drop in the ocean.

When my son was at nursery a full-time place cost me £9K a year. Eventually I got childcare vouchers and so did my husband so that reduced the cost somewhat as we both got tax relief. Then we got the (12?) hours free a week included so by then I was paying around £6.5K. This is in the south-east and between 2004-2007. I dread to think how much you are all paying now.

My childminder charged £5 before school and £13 after. £35 a day in the holidays but that included trips out and evening meal.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think that the government does underestimate childcare costs. The government purposefully presents the statistics in such a way that serves their political ends.

Just adding my costs to the comparison:

DS (4) gets 15 hours free (he does 31.5 hours a week, the 15 hours are knocked off this cost) and I pay around £3.50 per hour. During fully funded months (e.g. January, March, June when there are no school holidays) I pay £232 a month.

Two weeks at half price if you need holiday. Bank holidays are paid for even if the nursery is closed, which to me is fair as they still need to pay the staff.

I'm on the border of Manchester and Derbyshire.

Completely agree with hopelesslydevotedtogu and calamitously wrong.
I'd also add that I think the amount of labour involved in running homes and doing childcare was massively underestimated, and thus un costed and improvised for, because it was women's work and therefore invisible.
It has hit two generations like a falling wall - and we're still reeling from the shock - as women have properly joined the workforce and the implications of that previous no accounting for women's labour in the home unfold.

I'd add that it is not just the political right that did this, it was also the left. And if you re-read a lot of early feminist writing (eg Juliet Mitchell) the naivety concerning women's work in the home, and childcare in particular, is a bit of a jolt to contemporary eyes. I would write 'surprising' but when you think about how that happened in a writer as committed as Juliet Mitchell , it isn't that surprising at all.

You need 40h+ a week for childcare for a F/T post to be viable, and that only if the creche/nursery/cm is within a few minutes of the work. Oh but of course, we're talking women here, so we only need to worry our little heads about a part-time, minimum wage, term-time only job so we'll only need 15 hours of help.

Grrrr. Deep breath. Delete most of sarcastic rant.

DS has been at school for a few years now. He was F/T nursery (40h) from 6mo as I was the main breadwinner, and the (already subsidised) nursery was £10-11K a year for the first three years (outer London) and then dropped to just over £7k because of the 15h entitlement. I just added it up and am now

Childcare vouchers helped (and still do for holiday care) but the whole thing needs to be tax-free.

I'm in the NE of Scotland and pay around £50 a day (just over £1000 a month) for my 2 year old. When he turns 3, I will continue to pay this amount but 3x a year get a lump sum of around £600 back from the nursery

I really think that it is a huge structural problem, caused by a massive, systematic undervaluing of women's labour, both in and out of the home.

After seeing this in the news today I thought I'd look up the price of our local nursery. £205 pwk for a ft place for a 6wk-2year old.

I know someone who pays £30pd for 1 child in after school care!

This isn't the se either.

What i always find highly amusing with these sort of threads is peoples expectations that the government should somehow regulate this industry more than it already does. If you can't afford it find a way to make it work, millions of other people do. If its disposable income you want, who says the childcare worker isn't as justified in receiving a high wage as you are in having a few hundred pounds a month to fritter away as you please? This is part of life, you pay people to provide you services, you should have planned for this years ago like most sensible people rather than feigning outrage.

gracegrape - that is an astounding amoutn for wrap-around care. My DS is in a Private school, year 1 it works out at £37.90 a day for the whole day, including wrap-around care. Even in year six it is £55.00 a day - Private school = better value!

Out of interest I've just had a look at the nursery fees of DD's old nursery.

This is in a 'deprived' town in Lancashire.

They charge £210 a week for 7.30-6pm.

The private school my DD goes to including top up fees for aftercare 8-6 costs £7555 for 38 weeks a year.

The private nursery is dearer £7980 for 38 weeks.

Yet if you are paying school fees you are 'rich'.

I appreciate that school fees are low compared to down south but I know when DD started school and I said it was cheaper than nursery people used to look at me like I was mad.

It would help if the government childcare vouchers were higher. Cap of £243 a month per parent is low and hasn't altered for years.

Not paying tax and NI on this sum is helpful.

DH takes some each month and spends on holiday childcare. As a higher rate taxpayer not paying tax and NI on the sum he effectively saves 50% of childcare (joined prior to 2011 when deal for higher tax payers was restricted)

A lot of people don't seem aware of this. When school mums were moaning re costs of school holiday club we were the only ones paying with 'vouchers' (Well compushare bank transfer)

I agree, the 243 limit is low and hasn't changed in the nearly 5 years we've been claiming it. We are lucky that we can both claim it but it would be great if you could claim the whole cost of your childcare out of it rather than about 2/3rds.

The nursery near me is just open for 3 hours a morning Mon-Fri, so essentially it does just provide the 15 free hours for 3+yrs.

wigornian I'm amazed! (And off to look at the cost of local private schools....)

All the nurseries I know only do 15 hr a week sessions & they aren't all attached to primary schools. You get a choice of 3hrs in the morning or 3hrs in the afternoon. I don't know anyone whose child goes to nursery all day. Childminders seemed to be used more.