To think the government consistently underestimates the actual cost of childcare?

[MsMittens]

Another day another report about rising childcare costs. But what strikes me is that the figures referred to in these reports are significantly lower than the amounts actually paid for childcare (particularly in London and the South East). By way of example our DD is in nursery 4 days per week at a cost of £1,023 per month so annual cost is over £12,200 per annum and that is not even a full time place. We also have an au pair (I accept that may be a bit of a luxury but we have no family nearby to help out and both work full time in demanding jobs). So if we include au pair costs you are looking at £15,000 per annum. That is for 1 child under 3! If others are paying similar amounts (which I am guessing is the case as DDs nursery is oversubscribed), then these reports are grossly inaccurate and the Gov has no idea of the scale of the problem. AIBU to wonder where on earth the Gov gets its figures from?

This just enrages me as with costs like this of course it barely pays for some families to have both parens at work when childcare costs are this high and what generally happens is women leave the workforce (great if it is out of choice to be SAHM but not great if it is due to necessity). And don't even get me started on how hard it must be for single parent families. I just feel like the Gov cannot possibly assist parents if they have no idea of the actual costs involved.

The figures I imagine are a reasonably accurate average (haven't read the report) but include the childcare costs of all the people (probably the majority) who work part-time, have family to help out, shift work etc. People do what they can to minimise childcare costs but if it was cheaper many would use more ifyswim

But surely it doesn't matter if people have family to help out or not, the cost of a part-time nursery place (ie 25 hours a week) is still the same, and this is what the government figures represent. Yes, people may minimise their costs by using fewer days of childcare, it doesn't affect the price of a nursery place.

I agree with tiggytape. A lot of people I know get some sort of help from family, be it a day or two a week or picking up from school and this help is obviously not included in the figures. A cm in my area is around £3/3.50 per hour and nurseries are around £40-45 a day. It isn't that it's expensive, it really isn't for good quality childcare (my friend made the comment that she pays the woman who looks after her hair far more than the woman who looks after her baby). It's that wages are low so it's unaffordable for low earners but even on low wages it can usually be done for one child.

Here in London though most nurseries and childminders just opt out of the 15 hours free thing. They are still fully booked so don't have to offer. They simply couldn't afford the rent on venue to start with if all 3 year olds there were getting 15hrs free

Oh and a childminder is £6.50-8 per hr

I think some on here are forgetting there's a world outside London.. Childcare is far cheaper elsewhere, not because it's below par, but because it's not London! I'm in Yorkshire and you can use your free 15 hours (and it is a full 15 hours free) and not have to take more hours to pay for.
I appreciate it's different in London, the costs some of you quote are an average yearly salary here

My FT childcare costs me just under £32k per annum out of our post tax income for two children in Zone 3 London. I employ a full-time nanny and pay full NI etc. If I used a nursery it would cost me £33,600 for the same hours.

Nanny employers cannot claim back statutory sick pay, and I need to cover 6 weeks at 90% pay for maternity pay this year on top of the cost of another nanny before SMP kicks in. [I am v pleased for her but it's nearly another £3k to find]

£6k is a frickin' joke.

The government [and all previous governments] does what is sensible and uses the lowest possible benchmark it can rather than admit it can't possibly fund it to a reasonable level. Govt funding for everything is a finite pot of money so either something has to be cut to fund the difference, or the pay-off has got to be millions in tax revenue from parents going back to work offsetting the cost.

I idly wonder if free early years childcare funding was increased to full-time hours but 40-50 hrs pw was only available to working parents, [the current allowance remaining static effectively facilitating only nursery provision] would it materially increase the numbers of parents going back to work and thus tax revenues?

If you could access 40-50 hrs a week [8-6] free childcare in a state sponsored and regulated environment, do you think you could get a 4-5 day a week full-time job ?

I live in the north and childcare whilst expensive it no where near as bad as in London, I am really shocked by the amount that people pay.

My DD is 2 so doesnt get the 15 hours yet, she is in nursery for 3 full days a week and i pay £440 a month for that. Given that my wages are much lower than London, that £440 is still a stretch for me.

£9 an hour to walk a dog. FFS !

Doggy Daycare is a big thing around here... Local place prices (the call it 'fun day care')

Group Walks
17.50 Small/medium dogs
20.00 Large dogs
22.50 Giant dogs

Sat and Sun
20.00 Small/medium dogs
22.50 Large dogs
25.00 Giant dogs

Dog Day Care
30.00 Small dogs
35.00 Medium dogs
40.00 Large dogs
45.00 Giant dogs

Dog Boarding
35.00 Small dogs
40.00 Medium dogs
45.00 Large dogs
50.00 Giant dogs

The £6k figure in the reports today is based on part-time childcare (25 hours a week). Those paying for FT care are often paying for 50 hours a week.

Outside of London 3/3.50 an hour for childcare is pretty standard. Not round here it's not. 4/hour for a childminder is the cheapest I have found where I live, with most being 4.25 or 4.50 and nursery place will be around 45 ish for a full day.

We pay more than £700 for 3 days a week childcare. South East. Not London - about 40 mins on train. DD is only 1 so no access to any free hours but it seems looking at our nursery paperwork that there are "limited places" for the free 15 hour sessions.

I am thinking of putting DD into a feeder nursery by then but the one she goes to now has an OFSTED rating of outstanding and the local feeder nursery is just good, so now I've got that to think about! That's if I can get in and get any free hours.

It's misleading isn't it - 15 free hours should mean just that. I accept paying for food and any additional wrap around hours but 15 hours free should mean what it says!

i live oop north (north yorkshire) and i was paying £4 an hour for my childminder for my now 8 year old son, so £3 an hour is not standard.
I don't want free childcare, but looking at taking a min wage job after paying for childcare travel times i was taking home £2 A DAY.

And I think 6k a year is a joke to. My two are in childcare 3 days a week from 8.30 till 5.30 (so a 9 hour day) . My older one gets his 15 hours free at a preschool which are taken as 2.5 days a week (9-3 two days and 9-12 the other day) and I am very lucky that my CM doesnt charge me for that time, so out of those 3 days I am only paying for 11.5hrs in term time, but 27 hrs a week in holidays obviously. Even then it works out at over 8K a year.

Is this an English thing? Here where I am in Scotland I pay 9 pounds per day for 3 hours at after school club for one child. Nurseries have 15 hour a week sessions no more (3 hr sessions mon- fri) & the only thing we pay for is snacks.

Meglet that's not true, just average out your weekly costs to cover the extra for holiday times.

All the local nursery a have a morning session as 8-1 you are therefore able to send your child for just three free mornings term time. You can pay £2 for lunch or bring your own.

Is this an English thing? Here where I am in Scotland I pay 9 pounds per day for 3 hours at after school club for one child. Nurseries have 15 hour a week sessions no more (3 hr sessions mon- fri) & the only thing we pay for is snacks.

Errr... what do you mean? Don't parents go to work in Scotland then? DSil pays £200/week on nursery fees in Glasgow, not far off London prices.

It's not that childcare itself is expensive- I am looking at CM s in London and wondering how some of them do it for so little per child- but that it is a large proportion of many peoples' wages, and that you pay your childcare out of your post tax income.

I'm sure many parents would stay at home, or work part time, for their childrens' early years if they could re join their career later and progress, but in many careers taking five years off means that you can't re enter at a decent level and aren't taken seriously, especially when you will still need to earn enough to cover wraparound childcare.

I don't want childcare to be made cheaper as everyone loses out if children grow up in bad quality childcare. But I do want it to be more affordable, either by subsidising it or by allowing working parents to pay out of post tax income, and I do want parents to be able to take several years out of work, or work part time, and then re join their career later.

Society as a whole benefits from well raised children, and tax revenues benefit from parents continuing in their careers, so this isn't just a problem for individuals.

Reboot: people are talking about day nurseries. In Scotland, a FT place in a day nursery can often be around £10k a year (similar to the costs in northern England). In London it's likely to cost a lot more.

You can send your child to the nursery class at your local primary school for 3 hour sessions 5 hours a week in England too, but it isn't a viable option for many parents who work FT.

After school clubs are much cheaper than day nurseries (for a variety of reasons) ours is £8.25 an afternoon session.

Lots of nurseries in Scotland charge £40+ a day, and you are very often contracted to pay that for 50 weeks of the year (whether you use them or not).

CalamitouslyWrong
The £6k figure in the reports today is based on part-time childcare (25 hours a week). Those paying for FT care are often paying for 50 hours a week.

That's correct, that is a realistic figure produced by a children's charity. I took the OP's statement to mean there is a disparity between this sort of realistic figure and the made up figures the government normally spout to make their contributions sound bigger than they are, such as here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21842014 (fairly old link)

Examples of nursery fees in Scotland:

£1031 a month
£185-195 a week
£209-215 a week
£51 a day, with a 5% discount if you take a FT place
£210 a week

These are fairly representative. Childcare is not cheap. Thing is, it works out at between £4 and £5 an hour, which is much less than you'd pay for dog walking.