To ask if anyone has ever successfully sleep trained a 10 month old. Really???

[tinymeteor]

I've always had massive reservations about sleep training, but am finally knackered enough to be considering letting DD cry it out. She's gorgeous all day but I bloody dread nighttimes. Multiple wakings, can't self settle any more, and bedtimes, which have been in a smooth routine since 4 months, are starting to go to hell too. We are entering "something must be done" territory.

But does CIO work when you try it on a strong willed 10mo whose favoured position in the cot is vertical screaming? Or am I going to go through a week of hell that only serves to reinforce her hatred of being put to bed?

yabu. there are other options to try first.

Oh god - good luck op. Sleep threads never end well!!!

You seem to get a lot of left and right wing style opinions on letting children cry etc.

I can't really help as DS was sleeping through 8pm-7am from 6 weeks onwards (not being smug).

However all I would say is to do simple things that you already know. Do not EVER engage or talk to her if you go in her room when she wakes, cover her up, hug, put musical mobile on etc.

Don't talk, don't put a light on, don't engage.

A method I have heard is the minute counting.

First leave them to cry for 1 minute before you go in, do this a few times, then 2 minutes etc and so on and so on.

Eventually the gap should get longer between cries without you leaving them for ages and ages.

Really do hope you sort it.

Agree with the poster above. I also can't help - 10 month old here has been sleeping through soundly since he was 6 weeks too.

But then I expect him to go to sleep. If he whinged, well, he whinged a bit! This was when he was little. He was dry, he wasn't hungry, he wasn't too hot/too cold etc.

I still religiously put him down for his naps every two hours. He knows it's sleeping time. End of!

Does she nap during the day? How does that go?

It doesn't harm babies to be left on their own - do you hand her to other people? Does she get left on her own a bit (i'm not saying abandoned, I mean, if you go to the toilet, do you put her in a playpen for 5 mins whilst you go?)

I have two friends who have very needy babies. Both of them fuss over their babies all the time. I'm very relaxed with mine. (he isn't my first though!)

I personally don't think it's all about 'they won't sleep' I think there is probably behaviour/habits that are happening in the day that don't happen with babies who do sleep! (if that makes sense!)

I did sleep training at 10months with my first and 5 months with my second. Both took one night and minimal crying.

I think it depends what you mean by sleep training (and where your ability to deal with sleep deprivation lie - I have no ability to deal with it!)

I think the key to sleep training is to take it one bite at a time. Multiple wakings are not going to be solved overnight. A good daytime routine - waking, eating and napping at the same time every day is the start. A bedtime routine that is the same every day too. Take a week or so to do this.

Are they still feeding in the night? Then stop that and settle by cuddling/cosleeping until they fall asleep then transfer to their own cot.
Being in their own room helps - no snoring adults to wake them. Take another week to do this

Then try something like saying shhh and patting their back or tummy to get them to fall asleep without being in your arms. (Google no cry sleep solution). Try this for a week.

Then, and only then get them to fall asleep by themselves.

Sleep training isnt about leaving your child to cry for hours, its about having a measured and structured approach over a period of time. Its also not the easy option, you have to work at it.

I think it really divides opinion, but like all parenting choices you can only do what is right for you and your family.

Good luck,

I didn't sleep train for the same reason OP, DD was so bloody persistent and stubborn that I really couldn't see it working! She would happily scream all night. We just rode it out, at 15 months we have just had 4 nights in a row of her sleeping through which is our longest stretch yet!

You will get very mixed views on here re cry it out. All can say is that it worked for us. Its tough, but the benefits are enormous.

My first was a great sleeper, no sleep training required.

However, dd2 was a bloody nightmare. She woke every 45 minutes and the only way I could get her to sleep again was by bf'ing. This carried on for 8.5 months until I was about to lose my marbles.

I was about as hippy as it could get about sleep training. Tried NCSS, didn't work. We co slept and she wouldn't sleep in a cot. Finally I decided enough was enough. For one night only, I put her cot in another bedroom and her father stayed in there with her. She cried most of the night , occasionally nodding off for a few minutes here and there, but her dad was there to talk to her and soothe her as much as possible. She was not given any milk at all that night.

The following night, I put her cot in her room, put her down and she slept 12 hours straight, and has done ever since. I don't think I did anything cruel, at no point was she left on her own to cry. She just needed to learn there were other ways of settling herself back to sleep. Best thing I ever did for my sanity!

Completely agree blazing.

Good advice too from rollmeover.

I do hate it when people say it's all 100% luck.

I have 2 friends with VERY needy babies that don't sleep still. No medical problems or colic etc. one is 8 months and one is 11 months.

Both NEVER put their babies down and openly admit it. They hardly ever go to other people for hugs and both have never left them - even for an hour with someone else!!'

Then I have to sit and listen to them complain that their babies seem to whine now they have decided they want to put them down or give them to someone else and that they want to be cuddled whilst they sleep not let in a cot!

OP I'm not saying at all that this is what you do - just referring to what Blazing said. It drives me nuts!

I have a big family and DS has always gone to others from a young age. I made a conscious effort to do so.

Like someone else said, one baby step at a time and take lots of deep breaths!

I agree in some ways Blazing, but I have done everything 'right' with DD and she still doesn't bloody sleep. Strict nap and bedtime routine, left to whinge as long as it wasn't full on screaming, left with other people. She isn't at all clingy, never has been. She just doesn't sleep. Even a friend who's a sleep consultant admitted defeat with DD and said she'd sleep eventually!

Yeah I'm aware this topic is emotive stuff, rightly so. Wouldn't be even considering these methods of the gentler stuff was working, but believe me when I say we have tried other things but it's getting worse not better and we are exhausted. It's affecting my ability to enjoy my gorgeous girl in the daytime because I'm so sleep deprived. And I'm starting to be swayed by the argument that it's in her own interests to help her get better sleep habits, even if it's tough in the short term.

But then... I'm so sceptical about the idea that if you just hold your nerve long enough they magically start sleeping through. Seems like moonshine if I'm honest. Would really like to hear from those who've found these techniques successful at this age, wih all its developmental changes and separation issues. And would really like to hear from anyone who found it backfired, which is what I'm really afraid of.

Yes, I did controlled crying with both of my babies when they were about 9 - 10 months old and it worked within a couple of nights both times, and they both became very reliable sleepers after that.

Dd had already started sleeping about 10-11 hours per night quite often by 6 months (I know this because I kept a sleep diary for her and I've still got it ) but she regressed after a bad cold at 10 months and started waking at about midnight.

Ds hadn't settled into a good sleep routine by 10 months, he was waking two or three times in the night. I saw no harm in trying cc with ds as it had worked so well for dd.

But controlled crying really was pretty painless for all of us. It can and does work sometimes.

I did gradual retreat at 10 months. I could have written your OP. Let me be the voice of hope....

I was against CIO but was desperate for a night's sleep. Went to HV for advice, picked a day and went for it.

Ds was used to being picked up and rocked back to sleep ever time he woke. But day 1 - no picking out of his cot, placed my hand on him, rubbed his chest, told him in a whisper 'sleeeeeeeepy time'. Every time he stopped crying I'd remove my hand, he stood up and cried. I laid him straight back down and whispered 'sleeeeeepy time' and rubbed his chest. It took 45 minutes for him to finally fall asleep in those early days. And I did the same thing EVERY night EVERY time he woke (2/3 times a night). I was absolutely shattered and was so close to giving in and taking him out for a cuddle but I kept repeating to myself - he WILL sleep through.

EVery night I reduced contact and sat by his cot then inched further and further away. By three weeks I could put him down awake and leave the room. If he wakes in the night (not common now) I just lay him down and say sleepy time and he settles down and goes back to sleep.

I honestly honestly honestly didn't think my son was capable of sleeping through the night but he now sleeps 7.30pm - 6.45ish. It is possible but it's bloody hard work. But the way I figure it, you're going to be up anyway so do sleep training and it is an investment in your future sleep! Gradual retreat takes up to three weeks but it is a gentle approach, ds was never left to cry, I ws always there to comfort him and it has taught him to sleep. Best thing I EVER did. Good luck OP.

I used to sit or lie next to mine in their cot and shush and pat and stroke till they fell asleep.
It took I suppose a couple of weeks for up to 2 hours a night,but it paid off.
If you leave them to cry and don't go to them they get into too much of a state to sleep.
If you cuddle or feed them to sleep they don't learn to fall asleep in their own cot.
No lights at night.No coming out of the bedroom.No coming out of the cot unless ill.
Always go to them when they cry -fall asleep on their floor if necessary...
Use the same musical mobile/cd every bedtime as a sleep association thing.
I don't think it would have benefitted mine to give no interaction if they woke up -no playing,but I think calming shushing etc helps them feel secure.
Its being consistent that pays off.
And a bit of daytime sleep and feeding management too imo.

Sorry, I've just realised you mentioned CIO in your op!

I wouldn't have done that with my dc.

Have you read anything about controlled crying? I think the guy's name was Richard Furber/Ferber.

We did controlled crying when DD was about 7 months old. She was a terrible sleeper, BF to sleep, only napped in the car or pushchair (and woke whenever we got home!) and was waking multiple times in the night. I was totally stressed out. We did returning repeatedly - 2 minutes, 4 minutes, 8 minutes...never got to 16. On returning, quietly cuddled her and put her back down. It took 4 nights to really get there and we did naps the following week. She's nearly 2 and I still treasure nap time! Now if she won't settle at bedtime there's a reason (teeth, poo etc) but she generally settles well and sleeps through. It's not an easy thing to do, you have to be consistent but it worked for us.

I think the key to sleep training is to take it one bite at a time

This. ^^ It's not a 'throw them into their own room and hear them scream for four hours'. Gradually, you need to get your baby to be more independent and not be upset to be left to sleep.

Contentious, but does she have a dummy? Personally I hate the bloody things, but my son needed one. (daughter didn't) So although I don't like them, he does. Anyway, occasionally in the night he wakes, and cries because his dummy has fallen out and he can't find it. I go in, back in the mouth, job done!

Is she in her own room? If not, shift her now. Both of mine have had their own rooms since 6 weeks (yes, yes, I know) but I'm a big believer that they sleep better when not hearing other people's noises! Plus, you can get black out curtains etc, and really make the room peaceful. If she is still in your room, of course she won't go to sleep cos she knows you should be in there too! (so why aren't you etc)

I think there is always going to be the odd baby that is immune to sleeping (Gottobe, sympathies!) but on the whole, I really don't think it's luck that I have two small children who both sleep. A lot of bloody hard work went into it - mainly because I love my sleep and can't function on less than 7 hours a night.

I've even managed now to coordinate their main sleep of the day Two hours of peace, bliss! (now that was hard work to nail that one)

Just read your update. I'd like to add that I really believe that no matter what you pick that consistency is the key. I was so determined to change his sleeping habits and it was really difficult for a short time but I pushed through it, I gave it a chance to work. Gradual retreat does work but it takes a while and it's hard in the early days.

CIO on the other hand seems to be more of a short sharp spell if it works. But it doesn't always.

It's so hard to know what to do. You'll know best deep down what you need to do. But I know when you are so exhausted it is hard to see the wood for the trees.

i am reading with interest op. i am considering CC with 6mo ds2. he wont sleep longer than 40 mins at night and then feeds to sleep. In the day he rarely naps and cries constantly because he is exhausted. I suspect silent reflux. But i am nearly on my knees.

I did sleep training at 10 months - YES it worked. YES I hated it. NO I don't really "approve" of it... never thougt I'd do it. However, at about 8 months the soggy cuddly attachment co-sleepy stuff stopped working. DH just chatted to me and pulled my hair instead of going to sleep.

Now she likes to sleep on her own in her cot.

But OP - you say that you did have a good routine and it has now changed and got worse? How long has the sleep been going downhill? Because if it's a couple of weeks or so it could be teeth, mild bug, etc - and it's not worth putting you both through the CIO battle of wills if it's something which will resolve itself anyway & you'll get your nice sleepy baby back.

But if you're going stir crazy & you're pretty convinced there's no illness or whatever, then do it. x

MrsKoala I would seek doc/hv advice. That sounds like something is stopping him sleeping imo.

Also, have you considered cranial osteopathy? Worked wonders on my son.

When you say 'rarely naps', how do you mean? Because if I'm out of the house, my 10 month old won't nap at all. Too much going on. Then gets dead ratty. I make sure I'm home for nap time and he goes in his cot. Routine.

Only saying as in, I"m certain if I was out and about all the time my son wouldn't nap and would probably be exhausted and crying too.

Thanks for all the posts everyone! Here's the context, if you're interested.

I agree sleep isn't a separate issue from how they are in the day, but I really have tried to put some good patterns in place. She plays happily on her own in the cot or playpen for short periods, like while I shower. Has been through a very clingy phase since 8 months but is fine with grandparents, familiar friends, her new childminder, people she knows. I do pass her around at every opportunity! Don't make a fuss when leaving her, don't leap on her at every whimper. But it has mainly been the 2 of us during my mat leave so she is understandably attached to me.

Was EBF until recently, now mixed feeding as I'm back to work, so bedtime and night feeds have all been from mum, almost without exception.

Her bedtime routine has been the same since she went into her own room at 4 months, and works well: bath, PJs, stories, breastfeed with lights off, cuddle, dummy, bed. Me out of the room without a word. Usually goes down sleepy but not asleep and used to settle really well. Then the dreaded separation anxiety kicked in and it's become much much harder. Touchdown in the cot met by screaming and a lurch to stand up as I leave the room. Total apoplexy.

Night feeds - we're still on a dream feed (bottle) plus 1 or occasionally 2 more, but the wakings are as many as 4 per night. I don't put the light on, don't talk, just pick up, cuddle, sway, put down when she seems ready to go off again. But as with bedtime, when she realises what's happening she goes mental.

Have tried introducing a soft toy as a comforter. She couldn't give a crap about that monkey

Dummies used to work, now just take the edge off.

Daytime routine is solid but not rigid as I need some flexibility and you need to be able to get out and do interesting things at this age. She's on 2 naps still but both are a battle. Lots of swaying. She never took 3, ever.

My MiL tells me that DH woke up hourly until he was 3. I laugh, then go away somewhere and weep.

he naps for about 2 hrs in the morning if i walk him in the buggy but if we are home he doesn't nap for longer than 10 mins about 3 times a day. Then at night he goes about 11pm- 6 but waking every hour.

Ok. Read your update. Get rid of the night feeds. No 10 month old needs them. She's waking because she's got herself in a bad habit and there's a reason to wake imo. (it is worth knowing all babies wake every 90 mins (i think) just most can self settle. Those that know milk is coming if they whinge will probably kick off!)

Why do you need to do 'interesting' things at this age? She's a 10 month old baby. Seriously. Mine comes along 'for the ride' with older sister! I'm the first to admit though with my first child I tried to take her everywhere/show her everything etc etc. Honestly, she's a baby. You don't need to. Your company is enough and playing with toys. If going out and about is hindering a routine, put the routine first for a while.

Wean off the night feeds gradually though.

She has had a string of illnesses this winter unfortunately. Colds gastric virus, bronchiolitis. Top teeth came in in Jan, whih was hell. So more often than not there is an aggravating factor, but honestly I just think she's hit the age where she knows she's being put to bed and objects. Strenuously. Her best sleep is early in the night but as she gets less tired she wakes more and more until morning. I'm so knackered.

It's hard when they're poorly, and yes, my little boy wakes if he's teething/cold etc.

But I still don't give him milk.