Being a SAHM is not because partner earns loads, it is because childcare means it is unaffordable to work

[Yesitismeagain]

Why do people think SAHMs a lifestyle choice? Most people I know are SAHMs because they can't afford the childcare to make working worthwhile! With only 1 income coming in, the 'lifestyle' is one of watching every bloody penny.

Most of my well educated friends who had decent jobs - not top earners in the City, but earning over £30k each year. Had children, and then found they couldn't afford to go back to work as the childcare (+ commute and parking) would make no financial sense.

Their husbands salary means any tax credits on the wife's wages are minimal or zero.

I am fed up of being thought of as loaded as a family just because I don't work. I don't work because I can't afford to!!

Sometimes the other problem is finding work to fit around school hours and allow school holidays either free or to work from home.

Those jobs are like gold dust. It took me years to find one, and in fact I didn't get one until my children were beyond the age of needing paid childcare. The youngest was at secondary school, and all the shackles were off.

Personally, I think that if more employers would come into the 21st century and realise that so much can be done from home now via the internet then things would become a lot easier for many families. That is what I currently do, but it was possible years ago (didn't happen) and I would have taken such a job years ago too. Things are perhaps slowly changing now, but there is still a way to go.

Of course it was a choice to have three children. Did I choose it because I knew for sure and down to the last penny that I would always comfortably afford it? No. Did I choose to have them because I wanted them badly and would have greatly regretted not having them. Yes. Did I choose to be a SAHM? Not exactly, but I did it by default due to childcare costs and the only regret I have is that it was hard financially. I accepted that as by then I had no choice.

It isn't at all daft frank if both parents are happier in employment.

And my dc has never been treated like cattle.

Surely we all just do what we need to do to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table. For what its worth I work my husband's days off so we never have a whole day off together except for annual leave. Its shit but its what we have to do for now.

It's already been said.... but it's worth repeating - the childcare costs are a joint cost against joint income...
The reason it's 'worth it' (financialy- emotionaly and socialy are all other things to consider of course) is because it keeps you in the job market and when the kids need less/less expensive childcare you will reap the financial rewards of this. Unless you in one of the lucky few who can take 5-7 years out of the workplace and leap back in at the same salary/postion .
There have been times in the last 6 years when it has cost our family to maintain my career. But I've got a job interview on friday which would mean a promotion/pay rise and there is no way I could have even applied for the role had I not been working (in some capacity) for the last 5 years.
Plus (as a natural worrier) I always though that there was a lot riding on dh if he was the only earner, what if he got squashed by a bus or ran off with a younger model?

jackshit

You can avoid the paying for childcare problem by working evenings and nights

So if I worked nights and then cared for the Dc during the day, when would I sleep? Genuine question btw.

I'm with JackShit. If my DP earned 30k I would not need to work. I work nights, DP works days as can't afford childcare, we have twins. I had to go back to work when they were 1 year. Luckily I love my job, but it's bloody knackering!!!

So what? I really want to know why you should think that you are deemed entitled to any special treatment.

I am a single parent. I took 12 months off when DS was born (maternity leave plus study leave to work on my PhD). He went to daycare when he was 9 months old, and has gone ever since. I have to arrange childcare for the times I need to work outside daycare hours and I have to take a day off if he is ill.

So what exactly are you bleating about? You chose to have three children. You can't possibly be complaining that your life is more difficult now than it was before you chose to reproduce? Did you not expect some changes to your situation before you decided to have three children?

We have three kids and two in childcare at one point and it was a killer. We got into debt to get us through knowing it would get easier and now our youngest is starting school this year then the end is in sight and it will all be worth it. If I'd had time out then I wouldn't be earning the same amount I am now.

Its not something I would want to do but if it came to it then I planned to get a job which was nights or weekends only. Lots of of school mum friends do this, they look shattered but do it to help boost the family income and still be around for the children.

If it's not a lifestyle choice but a financial one then I'm not sure stepping out of the career path for 5 or more years is the best long term financial choice.

If pre-DC your earning power was £30k chances are the difference in earning power before a long career break Vs staying in work and getting promotions is likely to offset the cost of 5 years of paying for childcare out of your joint income.

A career is around 40 years (depressing in itself!) so on paper taking 5 years out to SAH say 10-15 years into that career should be recoverable. But somehow it rarely seems to be the case. What seems to happen is women step away from £30k jobs and then struggle to get back into that sort of work level, often ever.

Indeed it is quite often the case Yesitsme, and you'd have thought most people of average intelligence would be able to work it out for themselves. But it seems not!

Its a debate which just won't go away .

Breaking news.

Having three children is expensive.

Hold the front fucking page.

My Dad used to work 9pm-5pm in the early 1970s, took over at home to let my Mum sleep 6pm-10pm and then she did nightshift at a hotel 11pm-4am. Grim.

My experience of SAHP chimes with changey. Some families are comfortable with VERY careful budgeting, but I don't know any who are wealthy.

We are now relatively well-off with 2 FT working adults. It was hard during the early nursery years (£1100 pcm) but we got relief with employers childcare voucher scheme and then through the free hours once she hit 3 years-old. Now it is down to £300 pcm as she is at school. Having said that the other stuff gets more expensive as they get older doesn't it (clothes, food etc).

An important part of our family circumstances is that we have a decent income in a very low cost part of northern England. That equation works in our favour.

I worked last night, DM looked after the kids till midday. I've had 4 hours but not working tonight.
DM and MIL help so I can get a few hours. My twins are school age so term time is OK.
DP and I book AL between us for summer holidays.

Having up to 2 children shouldn't be deemed a lifestyle choice, otherwise the human race would end.

Erm, no, it wouldn't.

I truely don't believe that ANYONE has children because they fear the end of the human race. Therefore it's a lifestyle choice.

I haven't read the whole of the thread so apologies if I am repeating what someone else has said, but careers / family life / childcare is something that you decide on as a couple.

My H and I are both solicitors. Both in contentious specialisms, lots of unpredictable hours / Court work.

We have both made sacrifices to our careers in order that we both have responsibility for childcare / payment of childcare.

I went back 3 days, he moved firms to be closer to home so he could do nursery / school drop off. Meant I could start at 7.30am-ish and could finish early to collect from after-school (and work in the evening if necessary). He stayed late most nights. I understand that some employers are not as flexible but lots are if you can show there is no detrimental impact.

Since the children started school, we have usually only had a week off together as a family per year. We use all our other annual leave for covering the holidays. We stretch it by arranging days occasionally with parents of children's friends - they have my children one day (whilst I work) and then vice versa. We use a sports course occasionally which is half the price of the normal holiday clubs.

As others have said, nursery was massively expensive. We racked up an enormous overdraft by me working, but we knew it was only for a few years. Yes we have after school and school holidays to cover, but by juggling things around and making choices, we have made it work and our childcare costs are roughly a fifth of what they were when we had children at nursery.

So I do think a SAHP is a choice.

This again
You choose to have children no one forces you.
Then barring disability death illness divorce you make other choices at your leisure about how to afford and raise those kids.

Two parents equals childcare split proportionately between two salaries
Then both work, careers move forward equally etc

All this 'there was nothing left of my salary so I had to stay at home' is most often an excuse for wanting to SAH. Which is perfectly fine IMO but admit what it is.

Many people take the financial hit in order to keep their job/career.
I only started keeping some of my salary once my child started nursery. Until then I barely broke even - but it was worth it to keep my professional qualification and my job. My baby is now 16 and I am still working and have moved up 2 whole pay bands in the last 15 years - so it was worth it in the long run.

Financials of us and many others we know:

Dad earns £45k Mum earns £30k - Joint £75k Gross

Childcare for 2 children £30k Net (£36k Gross) - leaving £39k Gross

However, commute for Mum to work is £4.5k Gross - leaving £34.5k Gross

Both parents working puts huge pressure on family to cover illnesses as well as juggling the usual family life. Also, South East commuting means childcare is regularly 7.30am till 7pm so children see very little of their parents.

If only Dad worked the family income is £45k Gross. That is around a £10k gross difference. Plus a lot less stress on the family as 1 person is around to manage day to day running of a family and the children get to stay in their own homes etc.

This is not unusual.

If childcare was less then it would mean a lot more families would have both parents working.

Sorry, my figures are wrong. Commute for Mum to work is £4.5k Net (£6k Gross) - leaving £33k Gross. A difference of £12k Gross a year between Mum at home or Mum working.

My and my partners salary are pretty much at the top of our bands.

This is not unusual.

In the south east
With three children of specific ages.
For those salary levels.

Honestly, if you did an actual profile of earnings vs childcare this scenario would be a small percentage of actual families.

Not in our case. It would have been financially worth it for me to go back to work and pay for full time childcare but we decided it wasn't the right choice for us.

I absolutely agree op

We should have heavily subsidised childcare available to all. Thus would allow so many women to return to work.

We deliberately spaced our children to take advantage of the 15 hours funding. Most families we know did the same. I know multiples happen and babies sometimes appear closer together than planned but surely not all SAHM mums who 'can't afford' childcare are in this situation? Completely valid choice to have lots of babies close together but of course childcare is going to be crippling.

We also made the choice to leave London long before starting a family but it means we pay £3.50 an hour for a childminder. No careers to speak of but great work/life balance.

Yesitismeagain I also have 3 children. Most (but not all, I accept) breakfast / afterschool / holiday clubs will offer a discount if you have 3 children attending (even if it is only 5% or 10% for 2nd and 3rd child). If you would normally have to pay £300 per week on your figures for breakfast / afterschool, that might be reduced to say £280. Not much of a reduction, but still worth having over a month, say.

If you and your H were both working, you could potentially both claim childcare vouchers maybe saving £100 per month, maybe a bit more off that.

So it might cost you £1000 a month say, even if you had to put all 3 in breakfast club and afterschool club during term time. If you both used your 4 weeks' annual leave to cover school hols, you'd have 5 weeks of holiday clubs to fund. You wouldn't have paid breakfast / afterschool for the 8 weeks you'd be off (so saving about £2k) so although the cost of those 5 weeks would be between £3,500 and £4,000 (less any childcare voucher / multiple child savings), you'd have £2k to put towards it. So if you were budgeting for childcare over the year, it would probably be about £1k a month.

So depending on what your salary might have been before you gave up to be a SAHM, you might have been able to afford it. Whether you want to do that (the stress that comes with working full time for little immediate return), being out of the house / putting children in childcare etc, and maybe I'm over-simplyfying the figures, but I still think its a choice.

For me not working was not ever going to be an option. For my mental health and happiness, I need to work. Plus it would never be an option for DH either (for same reasons) so I don't see why it should be for me just because I'm a woman.

I agree that childcare is a joint expense.

My salary alone does cover childcare and my travel/work expenses (i'm in London). But only just. And when my youngest (I'm pregnant now) goes to nursery my oldest will be eligible for some free hours so that will ease things but again it will only just cover it. Although I should have had a pay rise by then (and a small bonus if i'm lucky).

We have accepted that these are going to be the most painful financial years for us.

But I think continuing to work means that I'm putting in the ground work with my employer to be able to adjust my working hours when my son starts school to allow me to do pick up every day. I work four days a week at the moment and my boss is very open to that kind of flexibility because he knows I work my arse off for them.

I can't imagine if I took a lot of time out of work that I would be able to have a management level job that allows for that.

Of course I'm stuck at my employers for the foreseeable but that's a very small sacrifice to make!!

It is bloody hard when kids are sick though. We have no family nearby so we are in constant dread of the nursery phone call!