to think that "middle class" has become a derogatory term

[hijk]

and actually, most people aren't actually part of any class, really, they are just individuals who make their own way in the world.

The idea of a class system is nonsense. All that exist are people's prejudices about themselves and others.

LurkingHusband Reginald D Hunter has nailed it IMO.

So yes, calling someone Middle Class on MN is meant to be derogatory.

But Polski salt in a little hessian bag which had had madrigals sung over it? Not quite so clear cut, I believe.....

And Hak, that is exactly why the other mum on the colossal independent school thread will never be able to compete with you doffs hat and logs off to prise son off the Wii

I think it's all a bit mixed up these days. Everyone seems to have a different definition of what 'middle class' actually means, and money and social status seem to be a lot more fluid than they were 30 or 40 years ago.

I do agree that there are some people (possibly only the minority, I'm not sure) who use 'middle class' to mean narrow-minded people who live very sheltered lives and don't know what real problems are, and I find that very irritating.

I think it's like anything really, it's ok to poke fun at a group if you're a part of it, but when you're outside of the group (e.g. someone who considers themselves as working class and enjoys making fun of the middle classes) I think you're on dodgy ground.

ooh a little hessian bag.....hmmmm....I see..indeed that does make it more confuse-ski.

actually I used to get really reallly pissed off with an ex boyf who was always going 'ooh you're so middle clarse' 'middle clarse is like this or that'.
What a tool he was.

I'm so middle class that if you cut me I bleed Hummous. Seriously- I am a self parody- I am am origami figure made out of the Guardian weekend magazine........

OP, the post you quoted doesn't use middle class as an insult at all, or even imply it; the poster simply states that they would prefer a more diverse school for their child.

However, I think 'middle class' is now morphing back into the sort of insult it used to be (as 'bourgeois'), where it was and is used to refer to pretentious or over-fussy behaviour or situations.

I think we are divided into over privileged rather arrogant former public school pupils, public school types who are not arrogant (a minority), lefties who want to be working class (but usually have professions) and the rest.

I am in the rest.

There are some threads like 'what's the most middle class thing you've ever heard in a supermarket', there are generally some unpleasant mocking posts that turn up on those.

Start one of those OP and you might get the kind of answer you're looking for from those less pleasant people you referred to at 12.45 pm.

When I called my SIL middle class I most certainly meant it in a derogatory way. She took it as a compliment.

I have definitely heard MC used in a derogatory way but to be entirely honest I think the actual meaning varies from person to person who uses it.

It displays a level of prejudice towards a group of people or perceived group. Therefore it says more about the person saying it than the person it's directed at I think.

If someone uses working class as an insult and attaches unflattering stereotypes to the label it's considered rude and prejudiced - and rightly so. There's no difference when another 'class' is used.

When people say they are middle class, it makes me think: insecure, desperately trying to prove they are better than other people because they deep-down know they aren't... And various similar things.

So I guess it has negative connotations to me, but only when people try and classify themselves as it.

I just think "Why do you have to be anything?"

"There are some threads like 'what's the most middle class thing you've ever heard in a supermarket', there are generally some unpleasant mocking posts that turn up on those."

Really? I though most of the mocking was people mocking themselves! Mind you, I do have a fantastic one thwt wasn't me.............

"When people say they are middle class, it makes me think: insecure, desperately trying to prove they are better than other people because they deep-down know they aren't..."

That only works if you think being middle class is better.......

Mind you, I do have a fantastic one thwt wasn't me

Go on, spill

"Toby- we've forgotten the treat jar- shall we get some rice cakes?"

No word of a lie- Richmond Waitrose- 2008.

oh God poor poor Toby.....

It's quite simple. If you use 'middle class' as a derogatory term you are a snob, either the original version or an inverted one.

That only works if you think being middle class is better

No it doesn't, it works when the person SAYING it thinks it's better.

Nope. I'm middle class. I don't think I'm better or worse- just middle class!

oh god my SM was unbearable , still is actually, about class.

for example when she was pregnant with my half brother, 'won't it be strange for baby, he will have one posh granny and a normal one'.

or going on with a little smirk about how 'middle clarse' our suburb was, the one that she had to rescue my poor dad from.

Snidy comments from my half sister about how our mum was 'posher' than theirs...

Then she proceeded to fill up her house with ghastly prints and expensive china and silver....

IMO any talk of class tends to stifle serious discussion. You can't debate the merits of any particular behaviour, lifestyle, opinion etc. sensibly once it gets labelled as "middle class" or "working class." People tend to start getting tribal and defensive about it instead of considering it on its own merits.

It's still good for a laugh though.

Hak