To feel we are all a little bit too obsessed with education and school?

[TheOddity]

I've seen threads recently about people remortgaging their house for private education, teachers publicly shamed in front of their peers for results beyond their control, people moving house to be nearer a good nursery, and on and on.
I recently moved to another country in Europe. I asked my new neighbour what the local nursery was like as that's where we intended to send our son. They said "it's very close and convenient". My spidey senses were tingling, did this mean it was a failing nursery? Next I go to the first parents' meeting. Not a word was spoken about targets, the curriculum etc. it was all about food and naps. In the end section for questions, the questions parents asked were about.....food and naps! He is there now for half a year, it's fine, And hopefully sometimes he is learning. There is one secondary school nearby so everyone goes there and again, it's fine. I am not overly worried my son will fail, because he is bright and I will help him.
I just think, are we all insane in the UK? Is it worth the stress? At the end of the day, if you are worried enough about them to remortgage your house, surely you could just do a bit of homework with them each night and it will all turn out ok? AIBU to think that school is all a bit out of proportion and life is pretty unpredictable unless your parents already own a fortune?

[GhostlyPenguin]

Knitted right though in some area getting any school place at all can be an huge problem.

[TheOddity]

That's what gets me even more. They are really underfunded to my eyes. I have seen average schools that look at a lot better than this nursery! It looks really battered! But honestly there is no outrage, no hand wringing about it. The class sizes here are vertiginous (35 children in a class of 3 year olds with two teachers and a flitting in and out helper) It just doesn't seem to be that central a topic. Much more concern about eating well, exercise, sleep. And obviously they want their children to try hard and do well, but they don't seem to see which school they attend as much of a factor. Fascinating stuff to me!

[hackmum]

YANBU, but honestly, I think this all started in the 80s when they brought in parental choice. When you just had to go to your local school, you didn't really have any responsibility for how/where your child was educated, you just didn't. Now you have "choice" (ha ha) the pressure is on and you feel you ought to be making the right choice for your child.

[Whoishillgirl]

OP, I suspect you get answers like those because the schools are good so they don't need to worry about that? That simply isn't the case here. Flowery girl it may have been your experience that teachers help willing pupils in poor schools but it sure as hell wasn't like that in my school. The teachers had given up. I was one of the few keen students and no teacher commented on it ever or encouraged me, or encouraged me to be ambitious for the future. Instead we were encouraged to be one bank clerks! A good job for kids like us surely! One of my friends, one of a very few, considering a- levels actually decided to become a bank clerk instead after thus session. Way to go, my shit school!
In my city now there are four schools where none or one percent of pupils get the minimum qualification levels set as targets for schools. You can bet your ass those schools have given up on the pupils too.
Anyway, the case you cite of 20 per cent of pupils being interested is actually quite a high percentage. So your school was not that bad.

[Annunziata]

I don't know, my family in Italy are not very pleased with their schools because they like that, it is only a novelty in nursery maybe?

Although, having said that, have you read that mad thread where the teacher was flamed because she said a volunteer was not at the bottom of the school pile? That is a big thing that is wrong with the UK, the sheer arrogance of parents.

[Quenelle]

Like KnittedJimmyChoos I was at school in the 70s and early 80s and had the same experience. Although I actually went to a good primary school and got off to a good start.

Then my parents sent me to the nearest comprehensive, not the grammar school I wanted to go to, because it was about a mile further from home. I started to struggle in many subjects within a year and yes, I was left to get on with it. My maths teacher didn't even bother speaking to me in lessons, because I had given up and completely stopped engaging. My parents used to tell me all the time how 'bright' I was but I don't remember them taking any interest in what I was actually doing from one year to the next.

I don't know of a single person I was at school with who went to university. Not one. And this was in the days of student grants, nobody had to worry about saddling themselves with student debt.

I blame my parents and the secondary school for my very inadequate education and am determined that DS will grow up to have better life choices than I had. I won't let him languish in a school that's letting him down, even if it means moving house to make sure of it.

[Annunziata]

There's an extra not in my post, sorry... the volunteer was at the bottom.

[TheOddity]

I'm really sorry to hear about some people's experience of school, it must be horrible to feel your school and parents let you down. I really don't want my son to feel like that. I will certainly be doing lots at home with him. Actually though, the rest is really out of my hands here which is quite freeing. There is just one school and everyone attends, from the business owners at the local factories, the shopkeepers, the factory workers, and the unemployed immigrants who speak none of the local language. Everyone. The teachers seem pretty hit and miss too. Some great, some just mediocre. But again, what do you do if you have no choice?! Sit back and relax, do a bit of extra timetables of an evening . Not trying to trivialise but starting to realise lack of choice sometimes feels a lot like freedom (goes to run Sound of Music style in the )

[Whoishillgirl]

We'll hack mum, we don't have parental choice in Scotland and as I said upstream, where I live this has just meant that the richest parents buy the best state school education for their kids by buying houses with massively inflated house prices as they are in good school catchment areas. I don't really see how this is a better situation.

[DoubletheRage]

That would be my ideal TheOddity. Truly comprehensive education, where children get to see that it takes all sorts and mix with families from both ends of the social spectrum. But it doesn't exist in UK because "nice" families don't send their Dc to the same schools as "rough" families.

[Whoishillgirl]

Well the oddity, there you have it. You don't need to stress because you are in the catchment for a good school as it has a good social mix of kids from varied socio economic backgrounds. You have not been enlightened or freed by lack of choice. You have been freed by living in an area with a good school. Those of us living in catchments in areas of massive socio economic deprivation are not so lucky. Sorry OP but as someone said upstream, those parents lucky enough to live in areas with good schools waxing lyrical about about how one should not obsess about schooling but just send their kids to the local school, come across as incredibly smug. Thank your lucky stars for your good fortune instead of looking down on us not in such a good situation.

[BubbleGirl01]

I have come to the conclusion having put 3 DC through secondary school that no matter how 'outstanding' the school is, the most important factor is a DCs education is that the DC 'want' to learn.

DD is now at college. She went to an 'outstanding' school, we regularly gave her 'pep' talks and lectures about how important it was that she buckle down if she wanted a good job blah blah, but she failed most of her GCSEs as she just was not interested in learning (her hair took precedence). It was only last year in college that she decided to buckle down and take it seriously and she is now excelling in her college course and will able to get into University with her forecasted grades if she wishes to.

The DTSs go to the same 'outstanding' school. DTS1 is in the top set for everything and excelling. He does not need much input from me at all. DTS2 is not bovvveerred and will probably turn out like DD despite being offered lots of intervention and me keeping in close contact with the school.

What I have always found odd is that the catchment school for our area, which is in the most affluent part of town where the vast majority of house prices are in the £500k+ mark, has been put in special measures and has always been a 'failing' school in the 8 years I have lived in this town and has a name for bad behaviour from pupils and bullying. It is running at half capacity or close to that. The other 3 schools in the much poorer areas are good and outstanding with full waiting lists .

[TheOddity]

Sorry for my moment of self satisfaction. Yes I am pleased to live somewhere now where it isn't an issue. But really this isn't a good school. It's just a school. They don't do anything that great, they don't seem to have targets or inspections, I am doing some voluntary english teaching so I know the children are not all well behaved and each class has a couple of really disruptive children. It's just ok. Am am resigning myself to ok. I know some schools are really bad in the UK (probably in every country) but I am enjoying not being on the quest for something really good anymore. Ok will have to be good enough.

[TheOddity]

Sorry, I also wanted to add what I was really talking about in terms of obsession are things like the Whitgift thread. Need I say more

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

but I don't remember them taking any interest in what I was actually doing from one year to the next

In my parents defense, they were not aware of how appalling things became, generally education wise, they were both well educated in spite of coming from WC families in poor areas. I dont think it ever occurred to them my school, in leafy MC village would be so utterly shite.


am determined that DS will grow up to have better life choices than I had. I won't let him languish in a school that's letting him down, even if it means moving house to make sure of it*

Those of us who have actually lived and breathed this all say same thing, hard to understand if you have not been in this situation and left with un forfilled potential etc. Many say same thing over and over on primary boards as we try and get heads round how they do things now

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

It's just a school

But a nusery school? I wouldnt sweat over nusery either

[Purpleflamingos]

I went to an infant then a junior school. The nearest one. In junior school I never ever had one maths lesson. Not one. Lots of worksheets and a coloured card system but no taught lesson. No one taught us multiplication, division, fractions or anything else. My first maths lesson at the high achieving non catchment secondary my parents chose to send me to was a mental maths test.
I'm now resitting maths gcse at college a few years too late.
But my dc love maths. Last night when they were building towers I lightheartedly explained an architects job, to design buildings with a pencil, ruler and rubber and do lots of maths. Ds declared he'd rather do that than be a fireman or a doctor. Good schools are important. We may place too much emphasis on testing and proving educational attainment but a good, solid foundation in the basics is incredibly important in life.

[fredfredsausagehead1]

It is so depressing isn't it?

I remember going to university and I was a high achiever from a deprived background with a strong accent. The public school students had achieved much lower grades than me but their grades and accent were seemingly worth more in academia.

Going on to study Psychology later on opened up a whole new can of worms, thinking about what intelligence is and how it is linked to success in life.

I have always tried to I still the attitude that behaving well and Doing well at school is very important.

However the praise I give them is always always for being resilient, strong, kind, thinking of others, letting things go and focusing and obsessing on what is important and staying true to who you are.

If I think about our education system deeply and seriously it makes me physically sick! What an earth or all these test and targets achieving for anyone?!

Education begins the very moment you leave school.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

Truly comprehensive education, where children get to see that it takes all sorts and mix with families from both ends of the social spectrum. But it doesn't exist in UK because "nice" families don't send their Dc to the same schools as "rough" families.


I don't think this is true at all. Esp from past decade when credit crunch came into being. Not every parent who wants to or even can ££ put dc into private does.

My sibs went to comps and there was a mix in them. Many parents including my own Df are/were staunch Labour and would not have considered anything else in spite of being able to afford it. Look at Paul McCartney. I have spoken to some wealthier parents at DD school and they would rather put money elsewhere, into nice house, or don't agree with paying for it.

Housing round me, is pretty diverse, so most schools get a mix of all sorts even the private ones.

However I know there are some HUGE estates and pockets of extreme deprivation out there, maybe its harder to get a mix there....but how many of those are there?

I mostly see mixed housing where ever I go, and the majority of dc will be attending local schools.

I think all schools have potential to allow, rough behaviour. We are all capable of it! Its how the school deals with it, including private. I think this is why schools build up bad reps.

For small instance school local to me, at one point, seemed tons of scruffy students, lighting up as soon as got out gates, nasty vile language, aggressive and rude....I used to say over my dead body DD will go there. Shortly after noticed it was in special measures, about a year later, just feel and look as an outsider I can tell, they are turning things round, no more smoking, pupils smart, under control....same dc, same places come from, different head.

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

I'm now resitting maths gcse at college a few years too late.

Good luck, your very brave, I should sit mine but cant bring myself too

[KnittedJimmyChoos]

It looks really battered! But honestly there is no outrage, no hand wringing about it

I am not sure this is something to be proud of.

Out rage and hand wringing is what makes things better all the time everywhere.

I am deeply sensitive to my environment, being in ugly 60's concrete blocks makes me feel miserable.

I feel happy in lovely, surroundings, I cant help that.

Lots of people are not bothered by it, that's fine. I am bothered by it, so I look for it, in where my dc are. They might not care about their surroundings, but I do.

[Whoishillgirl]

Knitted jimmy, you ask how many schools there are in concentrated areas of deprivation. Well in my city alone there are five. That is secondary schools only. And I live in a small city of less that 500,000 people. So if you think this is a small issue one doesn't need to worry about you are wrong.

[pictish]

Jimmy everyone is bothered by it. Everyone far prefers to be in lovely surroundings. You're not special.

[MsCoconut]

I can understand what you mean, OP. I grew up in a country different to the uk where there were:

• no targets (or teacher performance ratings that I was aware of)
  
• no ofsted (and consequently no labelling schools as "failing", "outstanding", etc)
  
• no exam boards (exams were administrated by the government)
  
• no sets
  

We still had some schools in better areas than others and schools are able to see how well there students exam results compared to other schools, but the emphasis (and pressure) on auditing teachers performance wasn't there.

Incidentally being a teacher there is considered quite a good job (steady work with a good pension) and more teachers are trained than can be accommodated for in schools.

[DamFineBeaver]

YABU.
Nothing "little" about it.
We're all WAAAAY too obsessed with it. Sometimes it makes me want to cry seeing 4 year olds being made to sit still and learn letters when they just want to chase each other and break stuff. It's bonkers.
IMHO.