to just leave DS to it and let him get rubbish grades?

[NoGinThanks]

DS is 13. Through an absolute fluke he was offered a place at selective school offering the IB last year. We bit their hands off and were so chuffed. He scored so highly on the test portion that it offset his non-perfect grades (lazy coaster).

We hoped the more challenging environment/motivated kids would rub off on him but well, he's consistently done the bare minimum, 'forgotten' homework, lied about what is required, he almost failed his MFL. He is bussed to school so there isn't the immediacy there was when we were a 5 min walk from the school.

Have tried everything we can think of. Having his planner signed, multiple meetings with the subjects he's doing badly in, standing over him, helping him, helping him too much...

Teachers are frustrated as he's scraping by when he could easily achieve better. Our attempts to help are increasingly met with screaming, yelling, more lies. He does seem resentful other children get singled out for praise for outstanding work but won't accept he needs to work harder to expect anything similar.

Would I be U to just say okay, fine, leave him to it and let him get the grades he 'deserves'?

NoGin- do you think the head of year/headteacher would meet you to discuss and assist? As I was similar to him at school/same age, always late homework, talking in lessons not revising.

One day (very scary) headmistress called me into her office. She had a huge pile of my late slips in front of her. She very sternly told me, that wasn't good enough etc. etc. and if 1 more piece of homework was handed in late/sub standard quality/not revising- she would have me in her office, doing my homework in front of her after school every day...

Did the trick!!

Does he have any idea what he might like to do when he is older? Maybe some work experience or a chat with someone in the job/ mentor could help.
Eg someone external saying if you want to do x you need these grades.
Visit a few uni open days?
Visit tech college/get apprenticeship info too.

Without grades he will have to presumably leave at 16 and go into alternative education not 6th form. That is not too far off to be looking at options.

Is he motivated by money? You mention he has Xbox etc. frank discussions re earning potential of person with grades v not?

Thanks so much for the replies.

He didn't have any tutoring, it was a 'fluke' he got in because he scored really really highly on the exam component, enough to offset not having straight A grades. He was desperate to go and really pleased to get in.

The curriculum has changed but expectations are the thing.

We've met with his teachers and the counsellor, for a while when he was failing his MFL he saw the counsellor every week to show her his binder and discuss his progress but now his grades are up a bit he doesn't.

He wants to be an actuary It's been his dream since he was about 7!! Obviously exams and focused learning are a huge part of that but if I point that out too strenuously I'm worried I'll put him off.

He wouldn't get back in to his old school as it's oversubscribed.

I think in the interests of family harmony I'm going to step back while radiating support and maternal feelings.

I can just see them asking him to leave and him having to move to the GCSE system halfway through with no options... it gives me the fear.

OP, I was a coaster all through secondary school. Did just enough homework to stay under the radar, never studied. Didn't achieve anywhere near my potential. Mind you, I wasn't pushed at home or at school.
I did a 2 year diploma at college, coasted through that too.

Then I got a job (at 21). Suddenly it all clicked for me. I enjoyed my job, and went from strength to strength. I studied for two sets of professional qualifications. I have done really really well in my career, so ended up reaching my potential anyway.

I didn't find motivation until I engaged in an interesting job. And I was also very immature.

Why not try the 'Self Managing' route for a while (after a discussion about consequences), and see if it brings more success?

I'm an actuary. The professional exams are really tough - your DS will need good grades and a lot of discipline to get through them. Being bright is great but it's not enough.

How about finding a qualified actuary to talk to him about their job - what they enjoy about it, and how difficult the exams are? It might come better from a neutral third party than his parents / teachers?

A friend of mine organised for her son to do a day of manual labour when he showed signs of slacking off at school (she didn't tell him what she was trying to do - she presented it as a chance for him to earn some extra pocket money towards something he was saving up for). The not-too-subtle message was that this was how he might end up spending his working life, if he didn't put the effort in at school. Might be worth a try?!

Being honest, the IB is so much harder than GSCEs that he may be happier moving schools to somewhere that he can achieve decent grades without putting in quite so much effort. Are you sure that this is the right school for him? If he fails his exams this year he may be asked to leave anyway.

He didn't get decent grades at his last school either He does the bare minimum, wherever he is apparently. It's just that Cs were okay in old school and aren't now.

I would so much rather he was enthusiastic even if not academic. A dedicated and enthusiastic manual worker would be much less worry because there'd be that drive to improve skills/train as a plumber or whatever. He's just sort of defiantly doing the least he can get away with.

For that reason I think changing schools again would be a bad move/shortsighted though I do worry a lot.

there might be some ideas here that you could apply in general

www.calmerparenting.com/parent-resources/transforming-homework-hassles/

www.calmerparenting.com/parent-resources/bringing-out-the-best-in-boys/

How did he learn about a job of actuary at the age of 7????

At that age my kids wouldn't know about it at all.
I always told them - I go to work to earn money and they go to school to learn. This is their job.
They are days I'd rather stay in bed but am dragging myself out of bed so should they.

What does he know about how hard you or his dad work? Does he understand that you are not always loving your job?

Not many 13 yr old boys work hard.At a grammar school at that age most won't have to work hard to get good grades.
I can't help wondering whether your DS's test scores were a flash in the pan, rather than a true reflction of his academic ability.

We know an actuary who DS hero worships :)

He understands the difference between jobs, vocations, hobbies, interests. He goes to school fine, he likes school even. Just doesn't engage/is almost defiantly not doing the work properly.

He does the minimum expected of him - turns up at school.
He knows he can't do less.

I am not sure what a wake up call he needs to understand that he needs more.
What about his homework?

I would consider getting him a Mindfulness course - I suspect he didn't realize how much work the new school would be and he's crapping himself - so he's self sabotaging so he won't try and be seen to fail, he's deliberately failing and then he can pass this off as a personal choice.

This is very common with kids who have "expectations" placed on them. They stop trying through fear of being judged a failure.

Speak to him about how he feels about the school and school work and life in general. He needs to cope with the idea of not being brilliant, but doing the best he can, doesn't matter what the other kids are doing - what does he want out of this? Can he not take positives from the school and adapt it to suit what his needs going forwards?

You could be describing my 13yo DS1 (yr9?)

Some children are so naturally competitive that they need good grades just for the sake of winning, but if not, they need another reason to care enough to put the work in. It's hard for many because they're still too young to really understand what "getting a good job" really means or the consequences of not doing so.

I am reliably informed, by DS1's teachers, that it will all fall into place next year and I'm clinging onto that hope, at the same time as trying hard to back off (not at all easy) and let him focus on some things that do matter to him. He is loving cadets and the lessons and tests he does there and even if it doesn't improve his exam results, it is building a lovely person.

I also keep reminding myself that he doesn't need to be top of the class. I was, but in a terrible school. Ds1 can probably come about half way in his school and get similar results to me.

Is he year 8 or 9? My 13 year old DS is year 9 and we have similar issues. Does bare minimum. Happy to get Cs in assessments. Got his first ever 3 for effort this term in one subject. Just can't be bothered.

Had parents evening last night and it was a recurring theme with his teachers. Lovely, bright boy but capable of so much more.

One thing however that a couple of the teachers mentioned was that it is fairly typical of boys at that age. They reckoned that once they move up to year 10 they sort of wake up to what is expected and their competitive streak comes out! We can but hope!

In the meantime we have asked his teachers to push him a bit more which obviously you have already done.

I think I would back off in your shoes. Current approach is clearly not working.

He's year 8.

He's always been like this, since he started school really (and in life). I think that's why I am worried. Nothing seems to spark his interest and make him want to learn more. He got used to being the 'clever one' - early reader and good at maths naturally. But now he is being introduced to new, challenging concepts and instead of learning he is resisting. This is stuff he would have to learn anyway!

For example when I asked about a particularly bad mark in maths he said the teacher had said to make sure you understood the concept before you did the work. And because he didn't understand the concept he hadn't done those questions at all. He hadn't asked for help at school or from us (despite us offering every day), hadn't looked at the book again, hadn't looked online. Just gone "don't understand so won't do".

He thought it was the teacher's job to check he understood (she has a class of 30).

With the MFL he decided the teacher didn't like him and apparently just sits staring into space.

With paired work for science his partner complained to the teacher that he was just sitting there or doodling and not doing any of the work so the other student was left doing it all.

He's been seen/assessed more than once, has had social stories, we talk about empathy and trying to imagine the way behaviour impacts other people. He honestly doesn't care.

It sounds like a self-esteem problem to me? Not speaking up when he doesn't understand in the selective school his mom is worried he'll be kicked out of? He can try and make it into a 'I don't care, I'm too good for this, anyway the teacher doesn't like me' kind of thing but that's just to protect his ego. I don't think it's about empathy, it's about how he looks. Try and get him to understand it's okay to not get something straight away. He seems terrified of failing (if you don't do any work, you don't fail at it... well you do, but that's what you need to teach him). Like with the science project. He'd rather everyone thinks he's a lazy dickhead than he tries and doesn't do very well. That's what it seems like to me, anyway

Why don't you listen to posters instead of just ignoring all of the amazing advice you are getting?

You want people to tell you to give up on your son - fine, do it! Throw away his education. Congrats! In a few years when it comes out that he had anxiety or even undiagnosed SN (because plenty of smart kids develop coping mechanisms to deal with it), then I hope you feel suitably chastised.

I think it's disgraceful that you would consider packing it in. Also "he just doesn't care" sounds like such superficial nonsense. He is used to coasting and now has to try. He's AFRAID TO FAIL. Checking his homework won't resolve that issue. Test him for anxiety. Help him!

How am I ignoring posters?

As I said, he has been assessed by an EdPsych. We have tried a lot of things.

What is this magic test for anxiety which hasn't been mentioned by GP or school or EdPsych?

Are there subjects he likes and engages with?

DS is convinced he is rubbish at maths which of course turns into a self fulfilling prophecy. He was moved down a set which he was happy about as he prefers the teacher. We have arranged extra tuition for him too. And then the maths teacher tells us he is top of the class and a natural mathematician! But he doesn't try if he doesn't get it as he is afraid of failure.

But thanks to all for your posts, a lot to think about.

I don't think OP has been ignoring posters.

Btw, this drives me mad because the UK system encourages this because it rewards smart kids who fly by the seat of their pants rather than hard work or consistency.

I grew up in a working class family who were good at motivating me. But of all my "smart" friends with "potential", all the middle class parents parented/pushed through this (and all their bright kids did well) and lots of working class parents just let their kids fail and all their "bright" kids underachieved.

I think the job of parents is to get kids to 18 with options. They don't have to do anything but at least give them the choice! People complain about elites and tories and nepotism and public schools but all those people actually bother to parent their kids!

x posted

If he went to an EdPsych then why do you keep saying he "doesn't care"? Was that the evaluation of the EdPsych? And did the GP refer him to anyone? Never mind, let him fail. Probably be good for him.

You tell him from now on you will help if asked - apart from that you will not be doing anything further.

Our attempts to help are increasingly met with screaming, yelling, more lies.

So now it is time to STOP.