To wonder how French (and Italian) women just know how to look stylish?

[Salmotrutta]

What is it exactly? I think it's the carefully chosen accessories like scarves, jewellery and bags but I'm not entirely sure...

I look okay(ish).

I'm reasonably good with styles that suit me.

But what is that undefinable thing that continental women seem to do that makes them look so elegant.

Simple, not overly made-up but just very well-groomed.

I want to know how to do it!!

I've spent a lot of time in Rome, and it was the very unstylish, garishly dressed ones that I noticed more. The clash of patterns and mix of colours, ostentatious jewellery. Maybe I was too blinded by them to notice the stylish ones.

I can talk at length about Italian women.

(1) The most important thing is that they wear clothes that fit - you will never see an Italian woman with double boob or bits of stomach mushrooming out from her waistband.

(2) They are not very adventurous - they wear clothes that, generally, their mothers wore - perhaps slightly higher heels. They wear very neutral colours and fabrics with some brights thrown in but generally they go for navy, caramel, cream, white, pastels which they co-ordinate.

(3) Everything is ironed. Everything is mended. Everything is clean.

(4) They are very confident about what they wear - even when they wear something (imo) hideous (yes, even neutrals can offend). They have the advantage of lovely tans - Italians spend a lot of time working on the sun-kissed look - which make them look healthier and happier.

(5) An Italian woman will happily spend five hours choosing a white t-shirt. There is no such thing as an impulse buy.

(6) Italians do not understand the concept of over-dressed - I have seen women in ankle-length cocktail dresses and shoulder-grazing earrings pushing trolleys around the supermarket.

I don't know how French women do it - they tend to look much cooler than Italians (there are a ton of French women in my neighbourhood). I am very envious of the way they make an outfit rock with the addition of a nonchalantly tied scarf .

We were talking about this at work recently as a colleague used to live in Paris. We narrowed it down to:

Hair - natural looking, rarely longer than shoulder length or in topknot. Hair does not look dyed, even if it is.

Makeup - very minimal and natural makeup with red lipstick.

Nails - no nail art, or french manicures! Plain colours only.

Clothes - simple stylish clothes, minimal pattern and colour. Bag and shoes co-ordinate but do NOT match. Shoes - flats or boots.

Accessories - less is more, one statement piece and nothing else, or simple minimal jewellery.

Drink water, smoke, and don't smile

But does it have to be an Hermes scarf lala???

And I totally get the scarf thing by the way.

French women just seem to know how to accessorise.

I can tick 3 or 4 of those boxes Mixtape but clearly not enough!

To the poster who said "everything is ironed" - yes, yes.

I have French relatives, by marriage, &* they iron & even press (with a damp cloth, theirr clothes before they put them on.

I could not be arsed - but it certainly makes a difference, especially with cheaper clothes.

Whilst I applaud all this chic dressing I am also a little bit proud of the eclectic british style. We shouldn't try to look like the Italians or the French. We are british, we have our own cool style which is much admired and imitated throughout the world. So there ;-)

No, literally an old piece of rag, the sort of thing I might blow my nose on, they will hoik round their neck, pair with an old tour t-shirt and a battered leather jacket and look like Kate Moss whereas I would look like Keith Richards (possibly even Cliff Richard).

But I'm not a "we" though Bodicea.

I'm a "me" and I would like to know how to look stylish without trying too hard.

If that's okay?

When I read these threads I always feel I have slightly failed at being an Italian woman

Maybe tomorrow I'll do some ironing!

Ahh, I think it's a low maintenance, but high input look. I came to the conclusion years ago that you can only ever wear one outfit at a time, there's simply NO POINT to having millions of cheap shitty clothes in your wardrobe, my wardrobe consists of very few, but high-end and lovely pieces, all of which I've put lots of thought into, I can put together tons of brilliant and different looks from very few things, BUT (& this is the key I think), all my clothes are similar tones, they're all beautifully cut & fit well and they're all made from natural fabrics and have very clean lines. I have some great accessories, and few shoes, but appropriate and well cared for shoes for every occasion and outfit.

That's the key I think, I love my wardrobe, it would horrify some in its simplicity but I often lie in bed & think what I can do with the different pieces.

Minimal make-up, red lips occasionally, good skin care, 'natural' hair.

It's not for everyone though, it just ain't, I often look at photos of people who have a much more flamboyant look & think, 'I wish I could be like that'.

Oh, and smoke you head off at any given opportunity & be skinny.

(French heritage but never lived in France).

I have to admit that I find that groomed 'European' look very very dull. Clear manicure, minimal makeup, sensible clothing in neutral colours, matching bags. My sister lives in Spain and all the women in her family have this same boring look and hairdo.

Where's the fun? Where's the personality and individuality?!

I much prefer the eccentric British aesthetic of Helena Bonham Carter. But as someone who wears leopard print fur, mad print dresses, heels and full makeup on the school run, I would wouldn't I?! .

I'm taking notes here.

But I fear my love of jeans, white tee shirt (or plain jumper in winter) and nice sandals (or boots in winter) just doesn't cut it...

I have a leopard print item Bunny.

Oh yes.

It is much loved.

But rarely worn...

OP, I'm French. The first thing to remember is that 'there is nothing more beautiful than a confident woman'. If you're not confident, pretend.

Second, the white tee, jeans, etc sounds perfectly French as long as it's the right tee and great-fitting jeans and very high-quality, polished boots.

Start here: this is still the classic guide.

This one includes great photos for a capsule wardrobe but little practical advice.

Here's Marie-Anne LeCoeur

Don't pay too much attention to wearing only neutrals. The French love to wear colour, in fact they're much bolder about wearing colour generallyespecially the menbut the trick is not to wear too many colours simultaneously and to use colour strategically (coloured shoes with a mostly neutral outfit is a classic case of this).

The French are interested in style, not trends. They might wear a piece or two of the season's "in" silhouettes or colours, but that's about it. They will tailor a trend only if it fits with their own personal style.

Enjoy experimenting.

It's just another stereotype.

Twinkle - thank you. A considered reply along with several other posters.

That's what I was hoping for.

truffle - I don't think it is a stereotype. I've visited France and Italy (and other places too) and I believe French and Italian women do look more stylish.

That is my opinion, based on what I have seen.

And style is subjective so can't be measured like diet or alcohol intake (just to name a couple of measurable things).

I thought French and Italians generally were well groomed. Not just the women.

I don't think the English are that bad either on the whole

Thank you Twinkle, just looking at Marie-Anne's clip and seeing how she was put together (I loved her cardigan with the statement buttons on the sleeves) was helpful too.

It's the difference between being stylish and boring.

Interesting thread. My Dad is French and I lived on Italy for five years. Whilst I agree that not all French and Italian women are chic, a greater proportion are and, in Italy at least, they take style very very seriously. Beauty is very important in Italian culture and sadly how a woman looks is often deemed more important than what she says or does. A few thoughts:

1. Italian women never go out the house with wet hair. A lot will get their hair blow dryed once a week. I used to when I was there as it was affordable & there is a hairdresser on every street.
2. In Milan & Paris, women eat & drink a lot less. One wretched glass of red wine all night. Very dull. Outside of Milan & Paris, it is a different story.
3. They buy classics that last ages.

I love Italy and my Italian friends, but I do think Italian culture can be tough on women. It is very much focussed on looks & being sexy. All well and good, but there is pressure with that, however effortless it may look. My Italian friends are always spending a fortune on lingerie to keep their partners happy, because it is expected.

having lived in Napoli, I can assure you lala's assertion number 1 is incorrect..
twinkle's right on confidence though, good clips!

They don't wear school uniforms so learn what suits them much younger.

And before that their parents 'style' them, French and Italian clothes (not looked in a while) were always much nicer than UK ones.

I don't necessarily think they are more stylish.sitting on the Paris metro you see just as many, if not more, frights than you do in London. And I certainly think this chic style you're all describing is quite boring. Give me British funkiness any day!

Having travelled widely in France, I agree with the many posters who disagree that French women, as a general rule, are chic. There is a class of women living in certain metropolitan areas who are what the world think are chic. What makes them chic? Being thin, wearing good quality, classic clothing which fit well (fit is key), and being well groomed. It looks nice, but can also be considered boring, as the look is also highly conformist. Quirky is just not done.