To think that DD will not be kidnapped and sold into white slavery when we go to Marrakech?

[Taz1212]

We're off to Marrakech later this year- DH, DS(12), DD(9) and me. I know Marrakech isn't everyone's cup of tea, but the ILs and now DH are starting to drive me up the wall! The ILs don't generally approve of how we are raising our DC (too much independence, too many activities etc) but DH usually rolls his eyes and says, "see how it was when I was growing up?" However, they have been going on and on and on about how they would never take children to Marrakech (not that they would ever go themselves...) and how DH is going to have to never let DD out of sight- and preferably never let go of her hand- so that "nothing bad" happens to her.

DH is now paranoid and is saying he is doing this holiday under duress. It all seems full of histrionics to me. I get that ILs like their holidays to be all sanitised - resort holidays and cruises where they never have to leave their little bubble. I like the odd sanitised holiday myself, but I also like a bit of adventure and that's what this is going to be.

Surely if kidnapping little British girls were a rampant problem, I would have heard about it, no?

We used to happily chat to the market traders and most were pushy but did stop when you made it clear though. The comment about being offered coke reminded me that after a few days of chatting to the street sellers you noticed that almost all of them had a 'coke nail'. I'm guessing in that part of Egypt (Nabq) coke use isn't unusual.

Totally agree with the comment about learning some of the language. The locals had a lot of respect for you if you made an effort to converse with them, even if you do get it wrong sometimes.

We've taken DD to (in order from age 4) Morroco Agadir, Morroco Marrakesh (5), Tunisia (6), Egypt (7), Egypt (8)

We've never had any hassle. I'm blond(ish) and ahem buxom and DD is far too sociable. A quick 'Shukran" for thanks and "La Shukran" for no thanks works well, and DH found that for the more persistent beggars/sellers pretending to be Russian with a barked "Nyet!" worked wonders!

We preferred Agadir to Marakesh, but that was only because DD likes the beach and DH loves a sea breeze. The Riads and Souks are fab, we bought back some amazing clothes/fabrics and ended up leaving behind most of DDs beach clothes so we could fit extra souvenirs in

Yes, if you go to countries where sales people are more aggressive than they usually are in the US or UK, knowing the local expression for "no" or "I don't want any" is useful. I got a lot of mileage out of "Bu yao" (I don't want any) in China, especially around the Great Wall.

There may well be food or water safety issues, as well as different safety standards with things like stairwells. That's not at all the same thing as kidnapping (and Turkey and Tunisia aren't the same as Morocco, for that matter). Do take the food and water safety warnings seriously- I ate some raw vegetables in China, and missed a day in Shanghai because I couldn't stray too far from a toilet I'm not sure I would take a kid too young to understand that he or she might get sick from drinking the water or eating the wrong things to a country where those are issues, but 9 should be old enough for that (though this will depend somewhat on the individual kid). Make sure to tell the kids before you go about not drinking the water.

No vacation destination is going to be perfectly safe. No vacation destination is going to have been a 100% positive experience for everyone who went there. Wherever you live, it's not 100% safe, either. Kidnappings happen in the US and UK, too (though at least in the US, they're usually custody disputes, not strangers grabbing a child).

Funny you should say that Eve, a trader we became friendly with told us that many of the sellers disliked the Russians because they were rude to them and so pretending to be Russian was the quickest way to stop them. 'Nyet' did work. Sadly he told us this the night before we were due to fly back

Do you have a UK equivalent for the "ugly American"? These are the American tourists who behave badly and usually ethnocentrically/xenophobically when traveling abroad, or who don't travel abroad because they believe negative stereotypes about foreigners or foreign countries. If they do travel abroad, everything has to be like it is "at home", or they complain. They might be unwilling to eat unfamiliar food (not for safety or religious/ethical reasons, just because it is unfamiliar).

Your ILs are acting like ugly Americans.

Friends went there last year with their pretty blonde 4 year old DD and said they would never go back.

Have to agree with Feesh our pretty blonde DD also had tons of attention, but in bars and cafes, the staff ( male and female) made such a fuss of her it was like a mini baby sitting service. Nearly every place would whisk her away, get her drinks, spin her round on bar seats..let her play with cocktail shakers. Get her bashing away on the piano

In uber posh hotel, the M something....we were in dark classey jazz bar and they did the same there! The singer broke into " isnt she lovely " which at the end she dedicated to the gorgeous little girl in the bar they got cocktail umbrellas and morello cherries out for her, and let her run riot!

All the other children there seemed very loved too. I found it to be a very warm and welcoming friendly culture. Esp to children.
My mother nearly ruined my first trip to Thailand with worries about kidnapping and being murdered. She went on so much about it I was in a bit of a state before I went and considered cancelling.

I am sorry to say I can imagine doing this to my DD too.

OP there are so many incredible bars and so on out there ( suitable for dc too) check them out.

moroccanmaryam.typepad.com/my_marrakesh/peacock-pavilions-guesthouse/

this is a good blog check it out.

We saw an awful lot of them when we lived in Cyprus Percy. The locals couldn't stand them, but the banks loved them. The money they flashed around was ridiculous. We found them horribly rude and aggressive (so channelled them in Morocco ).

I've been there 3 times and to Morrocco 6. I'm not white or blonde and I get lots of harrassment, stares, interest, attention and conversation. I think that people are wrong to assume its white skin that gets the attention over the fact that tourists are attractive for financial gain. The majority of the areas we are likely to frequent are just that, tourist areas! Arabs have a long history of street trade and its still strong today. The same cultures exist accross Egypt, Turkey, Tunisia etc. They 'hustle' for thier trade and thats what they know to do. Dont take the attention personally, they are at work, working how they think best! A polite no thank you will dobthe trick and keep walking. If you do want to shop, I advise you to wear sunglasses and play deaf where possible!!!! Also be prepared to haggle and find the fun in it!

This reminds me of my mother in the early eighties. I went on a school trip to France and she went on and on about the white slave traders with graphic descriptions of what might happen.

She also used to think I was going to be murdered by my boyfriend/s. I was late meeting her once and she went beserk, saying she thought I was lying dead at a local beauty spot.

We went on a Paris trip in 1983, myself, mum and dad, and she was convinced we were going to be attacked or mugged.

A couple of years ago I stayed in a hotel with her and there was a strange banging that appeared to be coming from the room next door. She got really worried and invented a terrorist constructing a bomb. We called staff in as she was so concerned and it turned out to be a loose vent cover behind the bed. It was a very windy night in Eastbourne

Similarly my children are not white and in fact almost look Morrocon! These cultures are very child friendly and they get lots of kisses, money, sweets, free drinks and meals! Its normal. Please don't confuse kindness for attempts to abduct your children!!

We had pretty much the same experience Eve. The ones we met were incredibly rude, shoving everyone out of the way at mealtimes, aggressive as well, especially after having a drink.
DS (who was 18 at the time) somehow ended up going drinking with a group of them one night despite neither speaking each others language they apparently had a brilliant evening and that particular group were polite and friendly with us all after that.

The staff we were friendly with said the Russians flashed and spent the cash but were unbelievably rude and rarely tipped.

I've never been to Morrocco and I take the point that not all North Africa is the same, but I hated the way I was treated in Egypt as a young blonde woman. I really felt very uncomfortable.

When we went to Tunisia when I was 14yo my poor dad had a terrible time. It's the only time I've seen him come close to hitting anyone.

No reason not to go but I do think you need to go with your eyes open, as you do anywhere. Guards tend to be let down on holiday though.

I'm blonde with green eyes and yes, had a few "hellos" etc if I've been on my own in the street in Egypt. Nothing actually threatening or scary though. Obviously no hassling at all if I'm with 18 stone, 6ft husband, funnily enough! Sensible precautions are all that's needed, I'd say. Don't let the kids out of sight, but then I wouldn't in any strange city. Just to add my thoughts to themix.

My in laws were beside themselves when they discovered my daughter was going to Marrakech with friends. She is a blue eyed blond so bound to be sold in to slavery or sold for camels. Well she's 22 and loved it stayed on longer which convinced her grand parents she had been sold ;) she came back safe and I never did receive any camels in the post !!!

Oh meant to add I didn't tell mil that boys were on the trip too !!!! It may have finished her off lol

I've been to Marrakech many times both on my own and with my two eldest children. I used to live in Israel. Never had a man with me unless you count my very young at the time son
I never had any problems, I'm blue eyed and blond haired and dressed in long skirts and a long sleeved top. A polite no thank you and a smile I always found got the traders to back off. I was treated as a object if curiosity usually, a woman with no husband I was working as well when I went alone so I was everything that is considered unusual... people usually had a lot of questions but weren't impolite. If you can muddle through with a few words it's really appreciated, I wanted to buy fabric dye there are huge heaps of it in the souk my pathetic attempts at communication led to half the place trying to help me as well as my being invited to a lovely ladies home to show me how to use the stuff. It is a very different culture but not in a bad way.
My son looks angelic (seriously he has the long blond curly hair blue eyed cherub look sorted) he was fussed over, hugged, given treats, clothes, toys.....the women especially. But it wasn't threatening its very usual in Middle eastern countries and if you join in its a much more fun experience. I drew the line at henna for him but the second I said no, there was no problem. He loved it all as did my daughter.
Basically you'll have a amazing time.

This site lists the top 7 countries where tourists are likely to be kidnapped. Morocco isn't on it.

Think for a minute. If you wanted to kidnap specifically white kids for "white slavery", why wouldn't you target poor or orphaned kids in eastern Europe, rather than kidnapping the children of British or American tourists? The British or American tourists are more likely to have the motivation and the resources to take action against a kidnapper than anyone is in the case of kids from a poor country. If you specifically wanted British or American kids for some reason, you'd target the kids whose disappearances were least likely to be reported. You'd look for kids with abusive or neglectful parents, kids in institutions or foster care, kids in families living on the margins of society. You wouldn't look for kids whose families have the resources to travel to places like Morocco- those families also tend to have the resources to get a kidnapping pursued vigorously. People involved in human trafficking of kids are evil, they're not stupid. (Of course, prejudiced beliefs are often impervious to logic, so it probably won't do any good to tell your ILs this)

YANBU they need to stop trying to spoil your holiday with their illogical fears.

To be fair a lot of traders make a joke if selling tou for camels and so on. I think several bars of gold were offered for me.

Don't forget to go to the Jardin Majorelle.

I agree, it's lovely. It previously belonged to Yves St Laurent.

Marrakech - mad and crazy - but no kidnapping

Get yourself to Essaouira - beautiful, hippy, laid-back. Cool due to the sea breezes.

If you want a recommendation for a guide please go to here - www.facebook.com/aitbahadou.mohammed?fref=ts

He is a good friend and will look after you.

Go to the Atlas mountains.

Just be polite to the shopkeepers and say no thankyou.

I have been a million times with children, friends, on my own. Morocco - It gets in your blood and you can't get it out.

DO NOT eat in the Jemaa el-Fnaa square - cafes etc are fine but don't eat at the stalls - you will get food poisoning.

I hated Marrakech, to my surprise.

In your shoes, I'd travel overland to Essaouira. Just gorgeous.

Not my husband was offered 2 camels for me, he asked for three, I wasn't worth it!

I totally agree with the poster who said its a huge culture clash with regards to children, between for example, arab culture and Brits.

We were in Istanbul in October, and my two DDs (5 and nearly 2, both dark haired and dark eyed by the way as we are British Asian) were absolutely adored and fussed over by all and sundry. Nobody thought nothing of touching and patting and even cuddling it kissing them! My dh and I were both a little weirded out by this to begin with, but we quickly realised EVERYONE was like this, so we totally relaxed and we all had an amazing time. Yes, I got a slightly different approach from the men when dh and the dd's were not with me, but I find that I get a lot more male attention when alone even in Britain in comparison to when I'm with dh/DDs if I have dd2 in a push chair and dd1 chattering walking alongside me then I'm practically invisible to half the population

Cuddling it? Nope, cuddling and kissing*