To hate the new Do It Yourself libraries

[Behindthepaintedgarden]

Our lovely local library, with nice cheerful assistants who nonetheless ensure that noise is kept at a reasonable level, and a nice cosy peaceful feel with elderly people sitting around reading newspapers, children quietly choosing books or listening to 'storytime' on a Wednesday afternoon, and schoolkids studying or doing homework, has now been turned into a noisy clattery warehouse.

The seating areas have been taken over by gangs of teenagers chatting, texting and facebooking and not showing any interest whatsoever in the books on display. Kids tear up and down the place shouting and screaming. Elderly people grapple with the swipe service. The school mums dropping in to change books after pick up stand around in groups talking at the tops of their voices. And in the middle of it some poor students try their best to do some studying.

It's bedlam in there. AIBU to wish for our nice old library which always felt like an oasis of calm, and where you could choose books in peace and quiet, and where elderly people could sit in peace reading the paper or chat quietly to library staff who knew what books to recommend to them?

Haha. I had an image of you dressed in black scaling the outside of the building with books strapped to your back.

Yes. They might pick up a newspaper, a DVD, an audio book, pamphlets about local events, join the holiday teen book club challenge (hackney) In essence they might connect to a society so quick to dismiss them as drunken nuisance louts.

I know what you mean op. Although I love the self service aspect. I always felt like my choice of reading material was being judged by the librarian but that's just my paranoia! I was in my library recently and it was very noisy. it would be nice if there was a quiet area sectioned off perhaps so everyone was happy but I guess it's all down to funding.

Yes. They might pick up a newspaper, a DVD, an audio book, pamphlets about local events, join the holiday teen book club challenge (hackney) In essence they might connect to a society so quick to dismiss them as drunken nuisance louts.

Which if they do, is lovely. But whilst possible alienating the former users?

There needs to be a way of integrating all users without detriment to others.

I'm another one that hates the changes. I used to use libraries a lot. Now I don't bother. Any book budget has disappeared in favour of computers and gimmicks and it's so noisy I may as well sit in a coffee shop. I can get noise anywhere! So I don't bother going any more and instead buy books and read them at home or in coffee shops. The result is I probably read less widely at more expense.

My mum was determined to stay working at our library because she refused to do what they wanted, which was retire before they made her redundant. Sadly dads ill health meant she had to leave but she worked in a library that used to be an oasis of calm and book loving and ended up as an internet cafe.

There is more space devoted to computers than books, the coffee shop has more customers than the library and the staff spend all of their time helping people with the "self serve" (hah!) system than they do anything else. To put it into perspective, "shelving" was a shift. You could spend the morning on one of the desks and the afternoon shelving. This was done by several people every single day. When mum retired, shelving could be done by one person in an hour at the end of the day :(

They had a workforce mainly made up of women over 55 so they were banking on natural wastage in order to save making people redundant. My mother would have had a massive pay out having worked there for 30+ years and having a very generous severance package in her contract, so it was cheaper for them to wait until she retired. None of the staff that have left in the last 5 years have been replaced.

The person unhappy about the children's nursery rhyme session - very grumpy! Bookstart is a national scheme to encourage reading and book sharing in families with babies, encouraging families to bring children to libraries and to encourage pre scho literacy. There's so much more to this then singing rhymes, that's part of it (although it helps speech and language development etc). A library that is a silent room full of old people reading the papers (not borrowing books!) is a dead library. (And having worked in one I can tell you in my experience most the boom/magazine readers were not borrowers)

You must encourage parents with very young children, teens, local clubs etc to come in to keep libraries alive. Teens in my library incidently used to borrow loads of horror, fantasy, YA fiction and Graphic novels. In 8 years the loans of Saga and romance books as well as large print had gone way down but these more 'Teen friendly' sections the loans has shot up. More young people were borrowing and that is wonderful.

Libraries are places to read and borrow books not hangout places for people who have no interest in reading but need a a space to talk loudly and laugh and socialise with their friends and talk on their phones. Noone is suggesting teens shouldn't be welcome in libraries but adults or teens who have no interest in reading and just want place to hang out with their mates should go to a cafe, or a community centre or other place. I am always mindful of the peace of others at a library and turn my phone on silent all the time. My DC know that libraries are quiet places and although everyone is welcome we should be considerate of the peace and quiet and disturb or cause commotion.

Reading groups, discussion groups or other group educational activities are fine but not individuals, be they teen or adult, who just want a place to talk on their phones.

Oh, and I love the self service borrowing of books. Some librarians at our local central library are self proclaimed book bailiffs and really up their own backsides and the less I have to deal with them the better.

I'm all for progress and getting people (especially the younger generations) in is critical if they are going to survive, but I can see your point, the library should offer some peace and quiet as well. I am Wondering if they could do what our Uni library does I.e. have separate areas/ floors for different types of study. The main internet/ computer access area downstairs is green, this area also has meeting points and large tables for group discussions. Being a green area means you can chat freely whilst using the computers and facilities. The middle floor has more some more internet access points/ computers etc. and also some of the library books. This area is painted orange which signals it is moderate noise only, so you can't have group discussions but you can talk quietly to the person sitting next to you. The top floor, all books , no computers, but does have desks in private cubicles. This area is painted red which means silent study only. Works well enough!

Thediet - I think you are wrong to pigeon hole libraries as places to borrow books. In this day and age they can also be very important for providing internet access to those who are not fortunate enough to have it at home, which for some teenagers means homework! I think it is fair to say that not all activities in libraries should be sole and silent but boundaries are clearly required so they can all coexist in harmony!

you have nice cheerful assistants . could you send them our way please. I'm not sure our local library staff have even had customer service training. these days I reserve online and check out with self service because I cannot bear the hassle of dealing with the staff.

rest of the library is fab though. we're very lucky.

Our village library is in the pharmacy, so no chance of a calm oasis when all and sundry are traipsing in and out but we went to from a tiny damp building open about 7 hours a week to a bright space open from 9 till 6:30 during the week and on Saturday morning. We have self serve and we do have a group of volunteers a few days a week that can help you if needed.
The change has been completely positive for us and in the next village, the library hours have been cut yet again.

Exactly Nanny. I totally agree with teenagers being encouraged to use the library to read, study, borrow books or use the computers. But when they're only coming in there to hang around chatting, texting and hogging all the seating but never going near the bookshelves or computers or study desks then its hardly a positive thing. They're basically just using it as a warmer alternative to hanging around outside the local shops.

I miss our library being a quiet place... I recently started studying again and went to use the refence books which were mainly gone and replaced by a wii and xbox kinect?? And I couldn't concentrate at all to study..with shouting running around texting phone calls and I even struggled to find somewhere to sit and work as they've taken all the seating out of mine too!

I'm glad when I used to really need a library as somewhere to focus to do work it was a quiet place xx for those that say it's good for somewhere for teenagers to hang around I'm guessing that's cause you don't want to use your local library?

There's a happy medium.

Libraries can and should be multi-use, multi function places, but they shouldn't be a place for teenagers (or indeed any one particular group) to take over - they aren't allowed to behave like that in their school libraries, and they shouldn't be allowed to impact on others.

I'm glad you do (bring the books back)VivalEbeaver but if they aren't issued it means no one knows where they are . Very frustrating when computer he say book Not on Loan and it's not there ..Tad selfish.
If there are no staff then they really do need to make sure the machines work properly .The authority I worked for was something of a pioneer 10/12 years ago but we had very few problems (we did a lot of research and phased them in over 18 months). I still use the said library service ( at least once a week, two different ones) and have rarely had problems or witnessed any.
I am horrified about the comments re unruly teenagers/ children-the staff should be trained and manage properly so they don't impact on others .A useful social/life skill they should be learning ? . The worst problem we used to have was in the very busy central library with GCSE and A level students revising/working collaboratively. It could be hard to keep noise levels down and they just didnt 'clock' why some people prefer to study in silence .
And I would endorse the importance of things like singing rhymes with, reading stories to toddlers-they are usually at set and well publicised times so if you are a regular user surely you can time your visits to avoid them ?
I'd love to know where some of you live . I always knew 'our' service was superior ...

Footnote
I hate to say this but some of the noisiest people in libraries are often slightly deaf older people who meet a friend or acquaintance and are so pleased to have someone to talk to , they natter for half an hour or more at the top of their voice . It is very hard to 'shusssh' , someone like that ,especially if they are a regular and, as most of our staff lived locally to their work, you may well have known them for years
A lot of youngsters, my own included,have said they like libraries partly because they are restful quiet places and 'no one is trying to sell you anything '. (they are, of course, but its very subtle)

Love our library! It's well used by people of all ages. I Was dreading the arrival of the self service machines, but they are nothing like the supermarket ones! Very easy to use, no queuing or unexpected items in the bagging area! I've never encountered bad behaviour there. Teenagers are very welcome as there's a special shelf for teen books. There's always a bit of noise but that's inevitable in the sense that it also serves as a community hub. I'd hate to go back to the old days of being shushed by stern librarians!

marshmallowpies would you not prefer diminishing staff time to be spent re-shelving books(and 'checking' i.e. making sure they are in order),so it's easier to find what you are looking for,creating interesting displays to draw attention to something you didn't know you wanted til you saw it, helping people with queries,supplying requests etc?Rather than stamping the date into a book for you -especially if they've told you it's fine to write it in yourself yourself? I put the printed slips on my kitchen noticeboard...and you can usually check your account on line.Be grateful-in the USA I'm told they often don't give you a slip-there's a 'neon' sign as you leave with that day's due date on it (not saying that's a good thing, but still )... You'd be surprised how many people don't bother to take said slip

Well said Kiffykaffycoffee

Ooh I remember hanging out in the library after school when I was a teen! Yep we were annoying - and not much 'homework' was done - but there's limited places you can go when you're that age - especially if you've got strict immigrant parents like I did (do). But tbh - except in in the runup to GCSEs - you're looking at an hour and a half max window after school and before they go home. And we were there at least ostensibly to do work, and I suppose one or two items of schoolwork did get done. And personally I did take books out frequently and occasionally looked something up for a project. So sorry, I'm going to go with YABU - they're public spaces and should be used by those who need them, and schoolchildren definitely fall into that category! But yes, if you need a quiet reading room to do actually work why not put in a suggestion for the staff for setting aside such an area?

Thank you post. I just think we should do the utmost to keep our libraries in any shape or form! Society as a whole would lose out if they are closed down. That means that some people might have to adjust their idea of what a library is.

I like the self-service machines, it was very tedious queuing up waiting for each book to be stamped. Our library has a great online facility whereby you can check when books are due back and renew them; it also sends email reminders when they are due to be returned.

I discovered another major plus of modern libraries when I went on holiday - namely the fact that they would let you take out books, CDs, DVDs etc and use their other facilities like the computers simply on production of your card for your local library. Saves a lot of packing!