To hate the new Do It Yourself libraries

[Behindthepaintedgarden]

Our lovely local library, with nice cheerful assistants who nonetheless ensure that noise is kept at a reasonable level, and a nice cosy peaceful feel with elderly people sitting around reading newspapers, children quietly choosing books or listening to 'storytime' on a Wednesday afternoon, and schoolkids studying or doing homework, has now been turned into a noisy clattery warehouse.

The seating areas have been taken over by gangs of teenagers chatting, texting and facebooking and not showing any interest whatsoever in the books on display. Kids tear up and down the place shouting and screaming. Elderly people grapple with the swipe service. The school mums dropping in to change books after pick up stand around in groups talking at the tops of their voices. And in the middle of it some poor students try their best to do some studying.

It's bedlam in there. AIBU to wish for our nice old library which always felt like an oasis of calm, and where you could choose books in peace and quiet, and where elderly people could sit in peace reading the paper or chat quietly to library staff who knew what books to recommend to them?

I agree with you, OP. Kids are welcome to run around screaming, mums chatting, teenagers texting/facebooking/videogaming - somewhere else. (Build them a youth club, children's centre, mums' hub, family-community meeting place, etc.) Let the library remain a place for books and silent reading/research/studying.

Thanks Iona. I really didn't understand the argument that because gangs of teenagers aren't welcome in public parks, it's not fair to object to them using the library as their new hang out.

YANBU but agree you are lucky it is still open.
We still have staff to keep things quiet but are self service too.

YANBU

Last time I went in there was a mother and baby group - all sat in a circle on the floor with their babies in front of them singing nursery songs. It was so off-putting I couldn't concentrate to pick a book.

I go to a library to borrow books to take home. Home being as quiet as I like for reading, as warm as I need, with seating for me etc.
You're an old stick in the mud. A library as a place people get together surrounded by books is wonderful. Reading isn't only for the deadly dull you know.

And if you can't concentrate to choose a book when kids are singing how do you manage to make decisions in the great outdoors, where we aren't all shushed to submission?!

As someone has said, Unidentified not everyone has the luxury of a warm quiet home to read in, or do their homework in and libraries used to fulfil that function. Also, a lot of people use libraries for research, which requires a certain level of peace and quiet.
But of course a dynamic, interesting person like yourself doesn't need to be concerned about such things

Just a note from the library staff point of view on some of these issues:
We are constantly trying to get teens in - looks like your library's cracked it!
Most staff aren't consulted before self-issue machines are installed, we don't all like them either!
I agree it's a shame that there isn't always a place for quiet study, but if the library is just one big room what can we do?
Oh, and the PP who suggested the 'noisy' patrons go to children's centres/youth clubs - I think these are being closed even faster than libraries!

I laughed a bit at your teenager comment.

Our new library that was built is exactly as you describe and we love it! It has a little cafe for people to sit and chill with a book/paper. It has a "teen" area with comfy couches, PCs and Xboxes, a childrens section with loads of tables where they always seem to have a crafty project going on and a baby and toddler area with soft mats, a ball pit etc.

And its in arguably the most run down area of my city.

Its absolutely amazing and the whole area is proud of it. The churches are all empty and I think while a lot of people don't miss the worship, they miss that community feeling. I think our library has captured that superbly and I use it at least weekly.

Your library sounds lovely Hamiltoes but ours hasn't been divided into distinct areas like yours. As a result elderly people have nowhere to sit and read the paper, because teenagers are sprawled out on all the available seating, people can't sit and chill with a book because kids are running up and down shrieking, and students can't study because the noise levels are high everywhere in the library.

Aahhh well I can see why that could get annoying.

Ours is still pretty open plan but its almost as if the further away from the baby area you go, the more quiet it becomes, so the study area is the furthest away.

Why don't you send some feedback to the council and see if they could re-jig the layout a bit so it can be more things to more people?

But libraries are not financially sustainable as merely heated rooms with chairs- we've seen that. They have to fill more roles and with that is the expectation people are more flexible in their dealing with libraries. Also for those who want to change how their library is run, how involved are you there? Have you raised your concerns?

Posted too soon!

The worst they can say is no, and going by the library workers post maybe if you angled it as giving teenagers their own space within the library therefor being more attractive at getting them in they might consider changing things about a bit?

That's a good idea Hamiltoes.

You raise good points Unidentified, but there was no need to be so rude in your first post. It made you sound quite childish.

I work in a library in a mid sized town which is rapidly expanding due to major house building schemes. However, despite the population growth footfall and book issues are going down. Anything that can be done to encourage people to walk through the door is positive.

Funding is being cut and unless libraries can prove themselves to be a "community hub" many more will be closed.

I worked in a library for a year and I really can't imagine doing away with the issues counter and introducing self-service tills (computer says no, unexpected item in the bagging area and all that). Lots of people who use libraries are elderly or disabled, probably a higher percentage of users than in a shop where they've also been foisted on us.

As for the stamp - we had one of those slip machines and people didn't like it. Occasionally it broke down and people were so happy to have stamps again.

Remember - as the customer you CAN insist on someone serving you. Note that the staff are probably targeted with x% of people using the self-service terminals, but that's their problem not yours and that's what you say in the nicest possible way.

Some of the staff in charge of libraries need to come out of their ivory towers sometime and actually experience life in one. And they also need to learn to articulate their value more efficiently - the number that are being closed is outrageously high. Libraries are not just for kids and the elderly. But they have to evolve which is why you have cafes and noisy bits now. But a lot of libraries have quiet study areas. It makes sense if they're not next to the kids' library when they do storytime though!

I partly hate them.....our local one is self service now. And like mentioned earlier computer says no a lot of the time. Whenever I resevred anything Id get an email saying it was ready, go to get it and computer wouldn't let me take it.

So I've now started ignoring the computer. I just help myself to books, never use my library card now. So I guess I don't have to worry about late fines anymore!

My local library is quite busy and noisy and has some activities going on there. I don't mind it. The only thing that does bother me is when I am in the designated quiet study area and teens are being really loud there. You have the whole of the library yet they choose the study area that is clearly marked for its purpose!

Our library has recently merged with the secondary school library in their new school building.

It is a community space and is shared with anyone who wants to use it. I have been in during the day and it is full of school children working, chatting etc

I really think it is the only viable way of keeping libraries open these days.

In a previous life I was in part responsible for implementing self- service issue/discharge in our local libraries . It did save (a lot) of money , though no-one was made redundant (natural wastage) and meant that we were able to keep all our libraries open (they are all still open 10 years later) and not reduce the money available for stock..Cuts in finding are a fact of life in Local Authorities and this was a pragmatic response
Rather to our surprise ,very few people, elderly or not, had trouble learning to use the machines and we had very few complaints ( I should know-I had to reply to them) . We did a lot of staff training and, yes, we did have a target of 95% of transactions being self- service .We did (and they still do) have staff available to help if need be, but we found users were very adept at helping each other . And GC especially liked showing GPs how to do it , It sometimes demonstrated to older people that technology isn't always scary and 'not for them'.
As muminhants says, library have evolved, as they always have, to include access to IT, especially for those who cannot afford it at home (there are still quite a few) and tution in using it (our courses always had a huge waiting list ) , resources such as ancestry.co.uk (free in most libraries-Family History Research is a huge growth area) , ebooks, Homework Clubs, etc as well as the more traditional story times , lending , study space. I do agree that in an ideal world there should be a quiet study area but this isn't always possible in a small building . Though we were fortunate enough to refurbish several libraries and I oversaw two 'new builds' where we were able to use modern technology to overcome some of these issues And most people have access to such in a bigger library .

Do you mean you steal books, VivalaBeaver?

Viva- if you try that at my local library you set off the alarms. How can you 1) excuse just walking off with books and 2) actually get away with it? Or have I misunderstood?

Whoever accused me of sounding childish in my original post, you say that like I should care. I stand by it. So many people on here love a moan about what in the bigger picture is a positive thing. It's like a clan of do gooders who were never teens themselves sometimes. Teenagers in a library is a WONDERFUL thing regardless of the noise.

I do bring the books back after I've finished with them!

If their computer worked or there was staff to help Id happily do it properly. No alarms. It's completely unmanned.

I don't mind teenagers in the library, but I do mind the loud knitting group that meets our library.I think I'm unreasonable, but they are my age - I can see it is fun to meet your friends, talk, drink tea and knit but I don't see why you have to do it loudly in my library.
Apologies to any library knitters out there - I know it is your library too, and libraries need plenty of users to survive.
But I love libraries, I love that they are a quiet space full of loads of different books.And it makes me sad that several of the libraries I go to aren't like that any more .There aren't many places you can go and be quiet.It seems there are plenty of places you can be loud, but I'm sure that is just because I prefer quiet

Teenagers in a library is a WONDERFUL thing regardless of the noise.

Even if they never pick up a book?

I like the self-service tills because I can pay my stupidly large fines and take out pornography and chick lit without blushing.