to ask if you're pissed off with the Baby Boomers?

[DamFineBeaver]

Because people who are currently young-ish adults (MN's main demographic?), and younger, will be paying for the lavish lifestyle they've enjoyed?
The money borrowed for their nice big pensions will be paid back by us and our children.

Does this mean they shouldn't spend so much time in Tenerife?

But they don't in many cases pay for 30 years. My late husband died after only taking his pension for 14 years. I now only get half of this, so unless I live to 110 we will have paid more for the pension than was given back to us as the money was invested to increase.

I don't believe there isn't the money out there to do this for everyone now.

Baby boomers have to realise that they were incredibly lucky to enjoy a combination of social and economic factors that won't be repeated.

And if they did that we'd be happy enough I reckon. Instead, Margaret is on another thread saying that pensioners should be given a pay rise. I am staggered at her lack of understanding of reality, her lack of empathy with young people and her overall sense of entitlement.

The very poorest pensioners probably should but it should be financed by Margaret losing her winter fuel payment and bus pass.

Margaret, seriously? Do you actually know nothing about public sector pension reform? Your husband may have paid contributions, but they were low and certainly didn't add up to his and you eventual pension. All public sector pension schemes have been reformed at least once, so that a) they are no longer final salary, and b) the contributions have been increased massively. Yet they are STILL a good deal- even paying 8/9% into a career average scheme until you are 68 is still much better value than a defined contribution scheme. Because final salary schemes were unfunded and unaffordable!!!! We cant fight for something that makes no economic sense, just because it WAS handed to others on a plate before the eventual cost was realised.

Do you know how much provision there was in the whole of government accounts for public sector pension liabilities last year? I do. £1.2 TRILLION.

I can't comment on your situation as I haven't seen the sums. However, It is highly likely that many people today will live into their 90's and it is no longer particularly notable to get to 100.

that was @ Margaret.

Baby boomers have to realise that they were incredibly lucky

Good god, did someone pass a law to that effect? We should be told!

I think you will find that there is absolutely no onus on anyone, boomer or not, to realise that they have been lucky, in anything!

And that does ignore the whole - not all boomers are mega rich, own palatial homes, have gold plated pensions, go on cruises - thing that this and numerous other threads have banged on about...

Sorry Margaret, just read your most recent comment. Do you really think that you will lose out unless you live to 110, because you believe his pension money is sitting in an account somewhere with his name on it? Hahahahahahahaha. It is recorded as a provision but it is not sitting somewhere with 30years worth waiting to be paid. They didn't expect to have to pay for 30 years and that is how it came to be unaffordable. Defined contribution schemes have the money paid in sat in a bank earning interest. Defined benefit schemes like yours promise to pay a set amount in the future, a promise from the government that future generations have to pay for. The country has a deficit. We spend more than we receive in taxes. And one of the biggest cost to the uk taxpayer is pensions.

I am staggered at her lack of understanding of reality, her lack of empathy with young people and her overall sense of entitlement.

Exchange "older" for "young" and you have the sentiment of many others on here too!

Both sentences are correct. Anyone who continues to hold a one sided view of this issue needs corrective lenses fitted!

Why should I loose my wfa or bus pass? I use both of them.

I'm not a rich person, my income is only slightly above min wage and well bellow the national average!

Just a little anecdotal, my friends are all going on holiday next month for a bit of sun in Malta for a fortnight. Nothing special - budget airlines and 4 star hotel. I can't comfortably afford this after some house and car bills and paying for granddaughters birthday party (16 pounds a head!) So I'm going without and often have to do so.

Margaret, I don't know how old you are, or when your husband died, but have you ever worked out how much money you have had out of this fictional overflowing pension pot? Your husband lived to see £558,000 out if it with 15 years plus lump sum. If you succeed him for another 15 that will be £800k. Nearly a million pounds if you do live longer. How much exactly do you think he contributed?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Lots of families with small children cannot afford holidays Margaret. I feel much more sorry for them than you.

Margaret, seriously?! Why SHOULD you get winter fuel allowance? It is not about whether you use it- everyone in the country could use a couple of hundred pounds towards their fuel bill- it is whether you NEED it. Which, given your actual living costs are only a third of your income, with one third entertainment and one third saved, you most certainly do not!

And stop banging on about minimum wage. You don't work and haven't worked, you cant claim to still be raising those children to justify being a housewife, you do not have an income, you have a pension. The minimum wage is for people that work, and have rent and mortgages to pay. The minimum for pensioners is whatever state pension plus pension credit they are entitled to. Seriously. If you want some more money go out and find an actual job yourself.

a bit of sun in Malta for a fortnight. Nothing special

A fortnight? In Malta? That sounds pretty special to me!! You do realise that would be a pipe dream for many families including mine!

Oh, sorry, just noticed it's with a budget airline. Clearly slumming it then

Margaret...with all due respect, if you can afford to save a third of your income you do not need a free bus pass or a winter fuel payment.
ALL benefits should be based on need not a sense of entitlement.

bedraggled
How is your pension so low- are you part time? Looking on my intranet the lowest paid most junior civil servant in my department earns £18kpa, and if you have been there 26 years I would be surprised if you were at the bottom of the payscale. And 26 years of that would pay a pension of £6k pa.

I have no intention of giving in-depth answers to your extremely personal questions, but will correct/respond to some of your assumptions: I have not worked here for 26 years. I will have worked here for 26 years by the time I retire in 9 years' time. For the first 8 years I was part time as my child was very young at the time, even though I'm a baby boomer. I am not at the bottom of my pay scale, but I am fairly low grade and my salary has been stagnant for several years. (As you're so au fait with the public sector, I should have thought you'd be well aware of the lack of career progression for the majority (mostly women) in admin roles in this sector.) I know you'd like to prove a point, but please don't make assumptions.

Young people today couldn't afford a flat of their own at 16, or much older. Not for three quarters of their wage.
And in response to that point... I couldn't afford it either, but I had no choice. It was not 'a flat of my own' - it was a room in a flat share. I walked six miles to work and six miles back in order to 'afford' it and lived largely on home-made soup and beans on toast. Staying at home wasn't an option. I had to afford it.

Many people can't comfortably afford to pay house and car bills and have never thrown a £16 a head birthday party.

I don't know many people between the ages of 50 and 70 who would agree that not being able to spend a fortnight in Malta is going without - at least no more than those between the ages of 20 and 35 - but you are making it quite hard to argue that point, Margaret. It's almost as though you want 'baby boomers' to look bad.

Kvetch, well said!!

Ignorance and a lack of empathy are not qualities to be celebrated nor are they to be enshrined in some sort of law.

If you want to be an ingrate, go ahead. If you want to be socially inept, feel free.

That is anyone of any age, not just older people.

Understanding your own position is a good one though. Sadly the very young of today seem to lack that, as do the very much older. Again not a specific age thing. It is something you grow into as you get passed your teens/twenties and out of again as you reach retirement age.

You see you are talking about human nature, not a trait specifically found on older people, boomers or not!

kvetch - how do you know? Many grandparents these days are/were, as are/were many parents. That is a daft statement.

merrymouse I suspect you have nailed the margaret oddity. Given the other thread 'it' started, she may well be doing just that.

Margaret is not the mouthpiece of all us baby boomers and her experience is not, I believe, typical.

Gideon, apologies, it was not intended to be a deeply personal question- I didn't ask your salary, just if you were part time since I did not believe such a low pension was possible after that length of service, and of course it isn't. If you are going to offer your pension as an example to disprove the value of public sector pensions you imply that is a FTE amount, when actually the minimum floor level after that long is £6kpa. Without giving all the information it is not an accurate example.
I agree that career progression is not great for women, but I do think it is likely most people would expect at least one promotion in 26 years, and up until recent austerity you could move up the payscales purely through length of service.

Equally, you didn't say flat share, you said flat! Not sure whether there were assumptions on my part or lack of clarification of key details on yours. Anyway, sorry if I offended you.