To wonder how, with all the funding cuts in the NHS, fertility treatment is still funded?

[Misfitless]

I know I will be flamed.

I considered name-changing, but it's cowardly, so I will take the flack.

Maybe infertility treatment has been cut, and I just haven't heard about it, but I have certainly heard that some cancer treatments have been cut.

I know it's easy for me to say, I have not had fertility issues, but I genuinely think that if I did, I wouldn't go down the route of expecting the NHS to fund it.

I am the only person on MN who feels this way/the only one who will admit it?

I think your attitude is hugely naive considering you conceived 4 DCS without any problem. Someone with so many DCS is clearly quite a drain on the NHS and probably shouldn't be judging people going through infertility to be honest.

I'm on day 18 of my privately funded ivf cycle because actually the NHS don't give out ivf very easily!

I would suggest some research on your part and maybe look into how much the NHS actually spends on ivf, not as much as you think. Also adopting is exceptionally hard and the way you have described it makes it sound trivial.

Your attitude coupled with a complete lack of experience makes your posts almost funny

Oh Lilka my personal favorite moment was "The List"

Which of the following would you accept and to what degree: Mild Moderate sgnificant:

HIV positive diagnosis
Hepatitis
Foetal alcohol syndrome
Family history of mental health issue like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder
Physical disability
Down's Syndrome
Extreme prematurity
etc etc
etc

There was no "none of the above" option!

I did love that shopping list.

*And I just know that if I had terminal cancer I would refuse further treatment. I just know I would, my mum had cancer and so did both of my grandfathers and although I don't have any direct experience of having cancer myself it is possible to know I wouldn't want further treatment?

Isn't it?*

Kewcumber I am genuinely sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were being ironic, there.

Lilka thank you for explaining .

I've known several adopters say that they always thought/knew they would adopt instead of have IVF (or alternately they used to say 'people should adopt rather than have IVF')...but when infertility really happened to them, it all changed and they knew they had to have IVF. And several others who thought they wouldn't have IVF, and didn't. They weren't originally any more sure than the former group, it's just that you never truly know how you'll react in the future. I've not reacted how I thought or 'knew' I would about certain things that have happened to me bcause of adoption. Either way, whatever we think WE would do in a certain situation should really not influence our perceptions of what other people should do or feel in the same situation. It's fine to never go down the IVF route, but you can't suggest that other people ought to feel the same way or act the same way, which is just one of the major reasons why versions of 'well if they can't concieve why don't they adopt, that's what I would do?' makes me want to hit my head on my keyboard.

I am naive, yes, Kitten but I can't be expected not to be. Probably the vast majority of people who go to those initial open days are as naive as I am, to be fair.

Maybe I wouldn't make it to the end of the first informal meeting, you don't know anymore than I do if I would actually be cut out for it. I do hope though, that people who are in positions of authority at these meetings, and throughout the adoption process aren't so scornful and scathing and hostile as some of the people on here.

*Then I think you were lucky.

DH and I went straight to adoption bypassing fertility treatment and I was grilled about it, even though I was also clear on my reasons. Oddly, DH wasn't.*

Strange, I have never met anyone who was grilled about it unless they were not really 'over' the need for IVF.

And YY to the hideous list Kewcumber

That's me - one big chip.

Not even a tiny bit angry.

You are the one who put their opinion into a public forum at which point I am entitled to challenge it.

My objection to your statements are (as I originally stated) you really can;t be that sure about how you would feel about something as major as never having biological children until you've faced that situation. I think you are naive for thinking that.

You probably think you know but you are making your assertions from a point of already having biological children, you don't have any insight at all into how it feels to not be able to. So your certainty that you wouldn't have IVF is just empty words.

And I'm allowed to find your superiority about adoption being a last resort for us failee's because I did find it patronising. I've yet to hear an adoptive parent talk about their children as being a "last resort" like there's some kind ranking of adopters from the ones who choose it as their first step down through the people who did try to get preganant first (tut tut not really committed to adoption) then those who might have had IUI but no IVF to the bottom of the rung who have several failed attempts at pregnancy suing donor eggs and donor sperm.

I have personally met some of the people on this very thread and they can tell you that I am very chilled out, non-angry and that I adore my son and I wouldn't have my life any other way. But if you're going to spout facile statements on a public forum I'm not inclined to let you without challenging it because there might be other people who have adopted out there after IVF who you could really hurt with your insular statements of "fact".

Can I also bring to your attention your very first sentence on the thread...

*I know I will be flamed.

I considered name-changing, but it's cowardly, so I will take the flack.*

I do hope though, that people who are in positions of authority at these meetings, and throughout the adoption process aren't so scornful and scathing and hostile as some of the people on here.

There speaks someone who has never met a social worker with an actual chip on their shoulder I think that upon finishing the adoption process, anyone would regard Kew's comments as positively fluffy!!

Strange, I have never met anyone who was grilled about it unless they were not really 'over' the need for IVF.

It was the fact we weren't remotely interested in IVF in the slightest that was such an enigma to them and resulted in the grilling. We never seriously considered tried IVF (nor wanted to) and they couldn't understand why not.

I can't work out the point of your question. Why only my last two DCs?
Why not my first two?

Because, MrsD by the time you decided that you wanted your last two children, you had experienced both birth children and adopted children.

Presumably then, having been through both, knowing that you wanted additional children, you probably gave as much consideration to adopting as you did to having biological children.

I didn't ask about your first two children because I assumed that you did what the majority of people do i.e. we want DCs, lets try for a baby.

Having experienced having both adopted and birth children, your decision to have two additional DCs, and to chose for those to be birth children was presumably a much more informed and thought out process than it was for me, who tbh hadn't ever thought about/experienced adoption in any great depth.

trying IVF

Thats really odd and just shows how inconsistent the process is. We were exactly the same as you and no-one batted an eyelid!

As an aside, best decision ever - our kids are gorgeous and never regretted a day

Thats really odd and just shows how inconsistent the process is. We were exactly the same as you and no-one batted an eyelid!

As an aside, best decision ever - our kids are gorgeous and never regretted a day

Sorry!

throughout the adoption process aren't so scornful and scathing and hostile as some of the people on here.

In my experience social workers are generally very polite whatever they think privately. Adoptive parents tend to be far more "scornful and scathing and hostile", though I like to think of it as being "robust" - we are a hardened group of old witches if you read the adoption boards and generally not fluffy at all because we've taken enough shit from enough people and had to stand up and fight for both ourselves and advocate for our DC's and we've heard enough of other people's certainties. From the "oooh I would love to adopt but we don't have a spare room/my DH won't/my DC are too young or old/I'm too young or old/I'm not black enough", through to those who tell us how we should be parenting our DC's and how we're kicking up a fuss about nothing.

We don't take no shit from the wannabe's.

And if during the hypothetical process which you're not really considering the social workers get wind of your attitude of total certainty about things which you haven't experienced they will be far more polite than I but way more ruthless in dropping you like a hot brick.

(and yes I was being sarcastic about the certainty about what cancer treatment I might choose because despite watching three members of my family go through it and having a more informed view on how much treatment I would have, I'm still not totally sure what I would do if it happened to me)

There is something about someone who has easily conceived four kids leaping on fertility treatment as an easy thing to save nhs money on that is particularly grating, I'm afraid. It is a bit like an athlete proposing saving money by not treating people with limps. Just annoying.

MrsD I think I have answered your question upthread.

Bit pointless too as the only one I thought I might really struggle with (exuding life limiting conditions) was autism.

Pointless in so many ways MrsDV!

If it helps the box I ticked absolutely not to was "extreme prematurity" as I decided that I couldn't cope with the uncertainty - DS was born at 26 weeks and 980 gr... my, how I laughed about it at the time

There are patients on my ward who are suffering from diseases and syndromes I have never heard of before. No-one will be doing a sponsored run wearing a pink top for them.

Misfitless you started a thread on an emotive subject, im not sure what you expected for the replies.

If you had done your research and come on here informed people may not have been 'hostile'.

Your judgement comes from a place of complete security so there is no way of telling what you would do. I find it slightly offensive that someone who has cost the NHS a lot of money in maternity, birth and postnatal care for 4 DCS thinks people with infertility are not worth the investment.

I've reported your post of 21:15 OP, just so you know.

"Honestly, some people on here need to get over themselves."

I can't believe you actually wrote that. Or to paraphrase Jennifer Aldridge, I sometimes wonder if you can hear the words that come out of your mouth.

You should be bloody ashamed of yourself. This thread - and you - are an absolute disgrace. Where's your humanity?