To think it won't be long before we have workhouses again?

[MrsTawdry]

I really know very little about politics but I know that there's a proportion of people who love benefits bashing and love abusing those who receive housing benefit etc.

It occurred to me recently that one "answer" to the housing crisis might be a sort of "Housing Centre" ....basic blocks of flats sort of thing...where occupants lose a portion of their JSA in return for a roof...and from there it's a step to being given food vouchers as part of benefits and working on a voluntary basis....litter picking etc.

Could this happen? Could a government legislate and make this happen?

Also inb4: herr de herr, large companies should pay more tax etc

No, just the tax that they owe would be a start.

Just I didn't need to prove I don't understand politics...I said it as my opening line in the OP!

The article I linked to just seemed to relate to my idea.

I'm not pushing any agenda. As I said...I don't really grasp politics at all. I don't actually trust any politician truthfully.

I think you're right to be worried, TBH.

I agree with morris

Arsenic but nobody will do anything about it. It's one of those things isn't it? The majority of people on here won't be affected...and those who could...what will they do? Protest in the street? Protest gets nobody anywhere anyway. Not anymore...

The problem is random, they are paying exactly what they owe.

It's an the issue with globalisation, everything they are doing is legal by law, whatever loophole is closed will open another one. It's a circular simplistic argument that doesn't achieve anything.

The major problem with the housing crisis is that we have built our economy on house prices, the issue is that a lot of this talk is generally tolerated as long as it won't crash the housing market.

No government wants to be holding the ball when/if the market does crash and the electorate don't want to address this side of the argument so it's stalemate.

Plus as I said the people who are genuinely forgotten when this type of discussion arises is those who are just above the threshold and are just expected to move for work/rent increases. And If you coma back with wanting rent caps then the baseline of what the government will pay will have to be reduced.

Isnt JSA what we pay national insurance contributions for.

Tarashill

The NHS
Unemployment benefit
Sickness and disability allowances
The state pension
NI is supposed to be "ring fenced" - meaning the money raised is only used for these areas and won't be spent on things like building schools or employing police officers.
However, the government can borrow from the National Insurance fund to help pay for other projects.

It's not a good idea that people who are alienated from the mainstream job market be sent wandering along roads picking up litter.

I have heard litter louts justifying their actions by saying it keeps people in jobs.

Sodexo and Serco are target driven.

My friend was made redundant. She's found another job in after four months. Single, no kids, one bedroom rented flat. £1000 less a year than on benefits. Magnify that by adding children, disability, care responsibility.

My husband is disabled. We're worse off because I'm working.

The political will has to be there to deal with tax avoidance/evasion. Unfortunately it is not there at the moment. Cuts to HMRC affect their ability to chase tax owed; Vodafone must have laughed all the way to the bank when HMRC settled for £1.2 Billion, when reports suggested that they had put aside twice that for a settlement.
The large corporations have to be chased as ferociously as small businesses tend to be. The likes of Amazon have to be told that there are consequences to tax avoidance, laws have to be tightened.

I've seen similar mentioned elsewhere on the net today but more aimed at single mums, I asked who would be paying for the childcare while these mums are out picking up litter? It would be more expensive to the taxpayers. If there's so much work to be done voluntarily then why don't they create paid vacancies?

I'm so tired of the picking on the poor, I know fuck all about politics but even I can see that we have the poor bickering against the poor while the rich keep getting richer, how about everyone unites and turns some of the anger and bitterness where it's aimed. A lot of people sound jealous of people on benefits, I'd be jealous of the millionaire with yachts who avoids tax but maybe I'm weird.

I agree you should be better off working than in benefits, but that's not gonna happen by slashing benefits etc, those of us working and struggling won't have a better life because some poor family has had benefits cut or are being singled out picking up litter. It wouldn't make me feel better either. Fairer wages are what's needed, not taking from those who have little in the first place.

Fair enough mstawdry, I read that article the other day, if you look into it, it is a report from a HA that charges 'affordable rent' (it highlights this in the article) and are only worried about there baseline turnover being reduced, as those solely reliant on housing benefit will cause an issue.

I would bet my right arm if benefits where to increase after the election that they would also increase rents, and there wouldn't be an outcry of those for those who are just above the threshold having to relocate.

My neighbour is a single Mother. She works 2 days per week in a nursery. She said that her boss said "Oh when your baby is eligible for the 2 year funding, you can work 5 days!" and my friend thought..."No...I can't...I won;t be able to pay the rent if I do that!"

She'd love to work 5 days. She can't afford to.

Arsenic but nobody will do anything about it. It's one of those things isn't it? The majority of people on here won't be affected...and those who could...what will they do? Protest in the street? Protest gets nobody anywhere anyway. Not anymore...

Everyone can vote, make a fuss, write letters.

It's not as though 'workhouses' will be announced, as you say. But as long as people can see the parallels...

The story of how mainly 'out relief' turned to a trend to 'in relief' is interesting and might seem familiar in parts to modern eyes. Have a look Morris. I'll try to dig up a link tomorrow.

("In relief" was workhouses)

I hope it doesn't but I see what your saying. If we follow the mindset going around at the moment to its logical conclusion, we could well see a form of workhouse spring up in a few years time.

My OH works in the equivalent. A hostel for the homeless, and they do have to pay top up rents from JSA. Others have to give up working to live there. They are already at breaking point.

(And "out relief" was the previous-ish regime of food and cash support from the parish) Gosh I'm tired- should go to bed instead of posting in scraps.

Long held limits on what is considered reasonable conditionality on benefits have been multiply breached in the past few short years. More than feasible that they will be eroded further and that social housing will be sucked into the mix, IMVHO. Terrible

And now we have snow, they have opened communal area to rough sleepers.
Many of the people he supports have learning disabilities and MH issues.
Yes the next step may well be a return to big institutions of the past.
Talk about going backwards.

Trying to make it political via cuts to HMRC is juvenile, it's happened for years it's just that this topic has become mainstream. Remember that the guardian media group have also been involved with tax avoidance, and if we are to tighten the rules we better hope the EU is on our side.

The housing crisis is a complete mess, but until the general electorate are willing to shun short term gain for future generations then no government will even entertain the idea.

Arsenic fascinating. I will read up.

I just read that though some disagree with when workhouses were phased out, some say it was during the 40s when the National Health came into being and old workhouses became hospitals.

It would be fascinating if the end of the NHS coincided with the beginning of a new phase of workhouses. Though I suspect I'm being fanciful in my fear there!

"...At the same time principles and management of the old Poor Law were also challenged on the grounds both of mismanagement and inefficiency and its alleged cause of rapid population growth.

...the alleged generosity of outdoor relief benefited the feckless and reduced the resources available to the deserving poor.

The practice of giving child allowances under the old Poor Law was seen as encouraging large families while the alleged generosity of outdoor relief was seen as benefiting the feckless and reducing the resources available to the deserving poor."

From this good BBC overview;

www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/bsurface_01.shtml

One of our big NHS clinics was indeed formerly a workhouse

Sorry - is indeed