To really resent the amount of tax we pay.

[KettleBelles]

I hate it, we pay a vast amount of tax to live in a country where we can't see a GP for a fortnight, feel criminalised every time we go to an airport, pay even more tax again to drive a car on inadequate and over crowded roads. Get squashed on crowded transport which is filthy and unreliable, where criminals seem to always be on the beneficial side of human rights.

I can't be the only one who feels like this?

But if you are a net contributor you need to think of it as a charitable donation to those in need

What a stupid sentiment. How about thinking of it as a tax, for the good of the country, to be used by the country to the benefit of every person living in it.

It doesn't matter who you are or what you earn, you benefit from the tax system and to think of it as some sort of charitable donation done out of the kindness of your heart is just ridiculous.

I think the system could be improved by looking into how other countries deal with funding the health service. I'm not suggesting an American system. Tax credits - mad idea. Housing Benefit not a good thing in hindsight.

Pay tax, buy civilisation.

As I said before you probably feel like you're not getting the service you 'deserve' because far too many very rich individuals and many many corporations are not paying tax. Tax havens and off shoring are a major issue. Billions of pounds if tax revenue are lost and so the rest of us have to shoulder the costs....
And wilf, forgive me, but it's simply bollocks that the public sector is less efficient/better than private. Unregulated private sector finance companies turned out to be catastrophic in their ineptness (and nearly bought the country to its knees).

I do think big companies get off lightly and the very rich get to make use of loopholes far uneasily. But I don't feel I get a bad deal on personal taxation. I would be open to paying more to fund stuff like education properly. And I have had more treatment from the NHS than my NI contributions will ever cover in my lifetime. So I count my blessings and am glad I didn't become seriously ill under an American system, and instead have survived to pay a fair whack of tax and be, hopefully, a productive member of society.

I think what people who pay high rates of tax resent is people demanding that they pay more. They already pay proportionally more tax and yet probably use the services that tax pays for less than those paying lower tax.

The idea that if you own a house that could house 4 more people means you should pay even more tax is ridiculous Mephisto. You already pay more in council tax for having a bigger house and will pay more in stamp duty when moving.

I'm all for people who avoid tax paying their due but a lot of people think some people who are high earners are obviously dodging tax is ridiculous. Most city workers pay tax honestly because it is done through their companies payroll. It's far easier to pay less tax than you should if you are self employed.

It's not just the rich who get out of tax. I can't think of a hairdresser who doesn't do evenings cash in hand, a tradesperson who declares everything, a B&B owner, a waitress who declares tips, a nanny who declares babysitting.

Of course they'll now be a chorus of posts about how all the above you know declare every penny. And I'm
Sure they do

the complaint by the OP (or my complaint) isn't about the level of taxation, it's about the services we receive for them.

I can always see my GP the day of or the next day. Transport here is great (London), but overcrowded.

OP, I live in the US and pay far less tax than I ever did in UK or Canada, yet I am surrounded by Americans who constantly moan about the ridiculous amount of tax they have to pay. So, no - you're not the only one who feels like this at all!

hamiltoes yes you might receive some benefit from public services, but I said net contributor, which means costing more in tax than drawn in benefits. So yes, the excess over and above that is a contribution to others who can't pay their share. No its not out of the goodness of your heart, it is compulsory. And yes it is for the good of the country as a whole. I don't see what is wrong in recognising that a)nobody actually likes paying tax, however much they may recognise the benefits of society, and b) that the net contributors are paying for the net beneficiaries. That isn't a criticism, just a statement of fact

"the complaint by the OP (or my complaint) isn't about the level of taxation, it's about the services we receive for them."

Perhaps we're not paying enough tax to properly fund the services?

Well no, we, collectively, aren't paying enough tax as demonstrated by the deficit!

I only wish it were safe to travel to Birmingham. What with the sharia law. Surely I pay enough tax for that?!

You do realise that security at airports is for your own safety?

Right?

right???

Airlines hate it. Airports hate it. Everyone fucking hates airport security.

They only do it because the alternative is to just say "you know what? Fuck it. Take your chances"

Because the only thing people hate more than airport security, is themselves or their loved ones getting blown up mid flight.

You do realise that security at airports is for your own safety?

no it's not. it's for theatre.

wigglylines has it:

^Pay tax, buy civilisation

There are some very stupid, ill-informed and selfish posters on this thread.

This has some interesting statistics www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/economy/index.html
Looks like identifiable public expenditure per head is £8k in England, more in the rest of the uk. Plus a share of the non-identifiable pot so say £10k per head being spent in public services. But then it says average direct tax (eg income tax) is only £7k per household, plus another £5k per household of indirect taxes (vat/fuel duty etc). So £12k of tax towards those benefits on average.

"I only wish it were safe to travel to Birmingham. What with the sharia law. Surely I pay enough tax for that?!"

Not much better down south - keep getting assaulted by the police in London for not wearing a veil!

(#foxnewsfacts for the uninitiated)

Actually probably more like £11k a head in public service expenditure. So that is £44k pa to be paid in taxes for a family of four to break even. Except the average household is only paying £12k.

So the question is, OP, was your tax bill more than £44k ( or £11k times however big your family is) ?

I am self-employed and am proud to pay my taxes every January. My tax bill has been rising every year, because my business has grown and become more successful. That makes me feel good. And I am happy to be making an increasing contribution to a fairer, more equitable society which is beneficial for us all.
I am unbelievably lucky in life to have been born into a middle class family and do not resent making a contribution to others' health care, education, etc because ultimately I think we all benefit from living in a fairer juster society.
Although as Littlefluffyclouds points out, it's not all that here compared with other countries in the west. Spirit Level has been sitting unread by my bed for about 5 years.

bedraggled how can anyone say they put more into the system than they take out of it when without the system they most likely would not have any wealth at all.

And yes I agree with points A and B, however that doesn't give anyone the right to think of taxation as a charitable donation.

There are 1000 different examples of how the taxation system in this country has contributed to and helped maintain your personal wealth so it doesn't really matter if you are a contributor or a beneficiary. One cannot exist without the other.

In comparing UK tax to US, most don't realise that Americans in many places pay 1. Federal tax ( everywhere)2. state income tax, most states,3. property taxes annually - like rates & can be very high, 4.,and sales taxes on most purchases, which is a local tax. They can also pay 5.state tax on inheritances as well as 6.federal tax on inheritances. I am always suspicious of the comparison - federal tax rates in US are lower, but all in, I am not so sure Americans pay less tax.

I think my PP is trying to echo what those have said in a very long winded way for those who just don't get it:

pay tax, buy civilisation

I haven't read the whole thread but OP I do not resent it at all. I lived in a country that I didnt have to pay tax in and I hated it. Everything was more expensive (electric and water were about 4 time the cost of the UK) and medical insurance was a huge expense. Schooling was crippling for those with children as well.
No decent HR in the workplace, sexism was rife, nothing in place to help those in extreme poverty....I feel lucky to live in the UK now.