to be disappointed that school is only interested in getting students up to level 4 or 5 in sats.

[angeleyes72]

Not a stealth boast but ds is quite able in one subject. Just ordinary in the rest. Anyway the school is running extra lessons to get people up to level 4 or 5. However, they are not doing anything to prepare students to sit a level 6 paper. He is already bored in class as they sre rightly covering level 5 work.
Aibu to be disappointed

Or you could say they hothouse young children in order to boost their position in league tables.

Some might and certainly some one reads about on the 4+ 7+ and so on threads do....

But I have friends with dc in simply good schools the difference being there is a clear aim. The aim being grammar or scholarships etc or simply reaching potential and receiving excellent education. The head is open, talks about it - what he does and doesnt like in terms of prep etc....and is very against additional tutoring.

The huge benefit it, he is open about the wishes of the parents, and what the school is doing to achieve those wishes. Its open.

In state - the parents may have wishes but there is an element of not being able to talk about them because the schools are not even allowed to prepare for the exams.

I thought we were talking about level 6, not the 11+?

Two very different subjects!

Not that many prep schools are selective.

And even the ones that claim to be, 'assess' the prospective three/four year olds based on being able to sit on a carpet and listen to the story .

Can any reception teacher (who does the assessing) really spot the level 6 candidates?

And as for all the 'weeding out' when does that happen?

Because my DC went to a super high achieving prep and not one pupil was weeded out in their year (60 kids).

However, they are not doing anything to prepare students to sit a level 6 paper. He is already bored in class as they sre rightly covering level 5 work

what motivation is there for this school to prepare ops child.

None. Because there is no point. No aim. No goal.

And even the ones that claim to be, 'assess' the prospective three/four year olds based on being able to sit on a carpet and listen to the story

I know some of them require more than that having read the 4+ threads. Some even go to the childs current setting to watch them in action, to make sure they really are getting the correct view of child. But how many of that type of school are there - it seems to be in London, and even then....as you say watching a child, paying attention at 4....

loads could pay attention at 4, hold pencil well...count...my dd couldn't at 4 and has now over taken them.

Not that many prep schools are selective.

They are all selective. They select by money in the first instance. This usually comes with an associated parental interest in education, and a higher degree of parental education, both of which are important factors in pupil achievement. They will have a vastly different intake to bog standard comp down the estate.

But a bright child who is able to take level 6 maths is a bright child where ever they are and whoever their parents are. the difference is one school is far more likely to support and want that child to take those papers and the other has....no reason too.

Knitted, loads of state schools put on booster classes and hire in teachers to get kids to sit the level 6 paper.

The schools that don't, it's probably more down to lack of resources than lack of desire to do well by the kids.

TheWordFactory

And perhaps then they have a little chat to the 3 or 4 year old about what they thought of the story at carpet time?

Bam! That's any four year old child with speech difficulties, perhaps due to special needs affecting communication screened out then. Selection right there. And children who can talk but don't do well with questions like "how did Kipper feel about the cake?" probably out, too.

As to level 6 maths and the thread, I'd wonder what maths teachers at secondaries really think about it? Is it, "yay, well prepared for the secondary curriculum and imbued with joy in maths" or "crap, here's a batch of kids who have been drilled in the procedure for the test without deeper understanding to get that 6 for the stats. Management will assume I'm at fault if I don't get them A*s and add further value to them, based on the inflated results they came in with".

I'm not a secondary maths teacher, so I don't know which it is. It probably depends on the maths teaching at the primary the children came from.

Oh come on, Word- you of all people know who is automatically selected out - by not even being in the frame n the first place- of private schools!

They would have weeded out my DS instantly, he couldn't sit on a carpet for story time for starters.

As for weeding out the less well achieving ones once they have started, it does happen....even if it hasn't in your child's school. My friend has both her boys at a selective private school....when they headed for the Middle school she told me that two of their friends were not joining them as they were apparently not up to the academic reach of the school. She said how disappointed one of the boy's parents had been but the school would not budge.

Of course their results are amazing but they should be...they keep only those children who can achieve the right results. Their teaching is obviously excellent too but with the right candidates it's easy.

Of course the main assessment for a prep school is; can you pay!

Are we seriously saying the children of the rich are intrinsically more capable of getting level 6s than the children of those that can't pay ie the vast majority?

I don't believe that for a nano-second.

And let's be honest, most prep schools need bums on seats. They can't afford to be especially selective at the pre-reception assessment or weed out. Yes there are a handful of ridiculously over subscribed ones in North London, but the rest?

FWIW neither of my DC could read or write before school. They did not even speak at their 'assessment'. It's not feasible that the reception teacher (with no experience of year 6 work) could work out who might or might not be clever.

Word
Are we seriously saying the children of the rich are intrinsically more capable of getting level 6s than the children of those that can't pay ie the vast majority?

Does it have to be about nature, rather than nurture? My year 1 child spent this weekend voluntarily doing multiplication problems and separating numbers into tens and units from a year 2 maths book. Yes, I know it sounds boasty. Now, nature wise, any fule (would) no that miniTilly has a chance of being very good at maths. But MiniTilly has also been nurtured in a family that values knowledge and has the money to splurge on maths books. If MiniTilly gets one of these level 6's in some years' time, will it be just natural talent at work? I say not.

They're not intrinsically more capable, necessarily, it's just the odds are in their favour.

Rich parents are more likely to be well-educated. Maternal education level is a big influence on child attainment. They can afford tutors. They can afford private schools with small class sizes. Of course it shouldn't be a surprise when it turns out that the kids do better.

My state school is in a nice middle class area with a pretty cosy intake with few kids on free school meals. Guess what, we get better results than the neighbouring schools. Maybe it's because we have more aim and purpose?

yes that's right. Teachers teach because they hate kids and don't care how they do in their exams.

Fucks sake.

But tilly posters do seem to be saying that the main reason private schools achieve higher is because they select ie down the natural ability of their cohort.

And for all the talk of assessments and weeding out, at prep level, there is precious little selection other than by bank account.

Selection by bank account is massive selection, wordfactory.

Do things not intersect?

It's going to depend on the school's need for family X's fees (if there's families Y, Z, A and B who all also want the place) but you can select at 4 with just an interview. Not accurately, as in include all the future
"high achievers". If you have a quick look at pencil grip, yes, you'll exclude the children who will just come on in spurts in a year or so. But you'll also screen out children with dyspraxia, problem with muscle tone too.

The school may need money too much to do that (although I speculate on what proportion of successful schools are so under subscribed that there's never 2 families competing for a place) but that's not the same as can't screen out children with SN (along with children with SN who are developing slowly just then) at 4.

• along with children without SN who are developing... that should read

Lots of private schools select overtly, of course. They use CE or their own tests to weed out the cleverest kids.

Many don't discretely select ie there is no exam. Ours doesn't.

However, the point of paying is that each child can take advantage of the higher standards of teaching and smaller class sizes (theoretically) to achieve to their own maximum potential.

There are kids in our private school who won't get A levels because they just aren't capable. But they will certainly do as well as they possible can because the learning environment is set up to ensure this.

So still selective in a way, definitely, because by not being open toe very family they are selecting their children. But not by intelligence.

Maybe it's because we have more aim and purpose?

Maybe your parents have more aim and purpose but aim and purpose is at work somewhere and if its not generated by the parents - it needs to be by the school.

Thankfully on another thread someone has posted this - which explains what I am trying to say much better.

www.suttontrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/poorgrammarreport-2.pdf

She's now in Yr 6. From what I understand primary schools no longer offer the Level 6 SATS paper in Maths - no idea why though?

That's just simply not true! You seem to have been badly misinformed.

a specialist maths group held locally at a nearby school. It's run by their HT, and the top ability children from all the village schools go and do secondary school maths, once a week.

Goodness thats very impressive.

LaQueen- sadly that's one of the downsides of out of school tutoring.