To have gone right off Benedict Cumberbatch

[UsedToBeAPaxmanFan]

I read today that Benedict Cumberbatch has had to apologise after using the phrase "coloured actors". Coloured? Seriously?

He did apologise and said that he knew it was wrong, but the fact that it was in his head in the first place is what's so troubling. I am older than him and have always known that "coloured" is an offensive term. Yes, I am aware that it wasn't considered so until the late 60s, but it hasn't been acceptable in his lifetime.

What was he not thinking?

Why is 'people of colour' appropriate but 'coloured' not?

Is it because the first describes the PERSON then the identifier?

Like I would find 'a person with autism' easier than 'an autistic'?

I don't know.

Cumberbatch was trying to make a good point about non-white actors struggling more in the UK to get good points - his heart was in the right place even if his wording was clumsy.

And what DrSeth says, eloquently, above!

Coloured (note, capital C) is indeed a term used in South Africa both during apartheid but also very much still now. It is generally seen as perfectly aceptable and non-pejorative as a description of a person or of their ethnic/cultural identity. (It does not mean black though, it means people of mixed race, mainly originalting from the ethnic and cultural melting pot of the Cape).

Take a look at:

www.theroot.com/articles/world/2013/10/south_africas_coloreds_identify_most_with_blacks_in_the_us.html

Exwife
I don't use the word coloured and I don't use "people of colour" either. I actually find I have very little need to describe people in terms of their skin colour in my day to day life.

However, BC has apologised unreservedly for using an outmoded term. And yet you still want to be arsey about it?

So yes - poor old Ben!

I guess so Soup but that actually doesn't sound good either to me.
I think the hardest thing is that when you're using these terms, not only have many of them come in and out of fashion and acceptability, but you're really choosing the least-worst option. Throw into the mix that some of these terms are problematic in one country but not another and I can see how someone might easily brain-fart when under pressure to keep talking on live TV!

Thankyou to those who have given answers to my question! Good points.

I think to say "he must be racist to even have those words in his head" is a bonkers argument. We all have racist words in our head because we know which words are racist iyswim.

I mean I know lots of misogynyistic words. They are in my head because I've heard them used. Doesn't make me a misogynist.

IMO, in the context of what he was talking about, if you read the full quote, his intent was to express the very opposite of discrimination/racism.

From interviews I've seen and read with him in the past, he seems to think and talk fast, get slightly carried away and babble. He frequently mixes words up and talks himself into corners.

I suspect in this case he was intending to say 'people of colour', because it's a US-friendly term, but it came out wrong. Or possibly he did mean 'coloured' and was just misguided. I'm about the same age as him and remember when I was younger feeling very unsure about what terms were OK and which were to be avoided. I did grow up in white-centric small-town England though –but then again maybe that's not so different from being at a predominantly white and wealthy boarding school.

The apology seems sincere to me and there's no hint of the 'if I inadvertently caused offence' non-apology we get so often.

Those saying that it'd be different if Jeremy Clarkson said it, well Jeremy Clarkson doesn't say things like that that sound like a genuine mix-up; he makes 'jokes' like 'there's a slope on that bridge' and thinks it's OK to use the n-word.

My dad still uses the term coloured - he thinks it's OK and better than saying black. He is in his 80s and is stubborn and outdated .

Coloured is an acceptable and 'official' term in South Africa and is used To descibe a particular ethnic group. About 9% of the population is 'coloured' wiki INFO HERE.

Ha, I saw this on the news and immediately thought of mumsnet - Benedict Cumberbatch and correct language to use about non white people? Bingo!

I really dislike 'coloured' because it implies that white is the default and anything else is a 'deviation' from that. And as for 'coloureds', ewwwww! To be fair even my 'PC gone mad' parents know that 'coloured' is the incorrect terminology at the moment

What is wrong with mixed race? I work in a school that has mainly white children but there are some ethnic minority children and most of those are 'mixed race' (ie. an african father and chinese mother, or brazilian father and indian mother). i usually refer to those children as 'mixed race' (i know, i know, you shouldnt use their skin colour as andescriptor, but when you have a class of mainly white kids and you want to talk about the child who isn't white, and they are all wearing the same uniform, i dont think there is any point talking about 'the girl with the brown hair' etc)

And how is 'Aboriginal' ok, but 'Australian Aboriginies' not ok?

I imagine that BC was conscious of being in America and was thinking of saying 'people of colour' (I still don't get why that is accepted terminology) and it came out wrong.

Crossposted with TheDudesMummy

I am mid 40's and used coloured up until maybe 15 years ago. Changed my wording to be more 'modern'. I suppose like many I get current terminology form Radio and TV news.

mintyy I was asking posters here who have defended their use of 'coloured' despite (only now? really?) being made explicitly aware in this thread that it is deemed offensive by the very people it refers to.

someone even said something along the lines of their dad saying it, and he was educated so it must be ok. well, my dad was a very successful businessman, and highly regarded in his industry. he also used to throw his dinner at the wall if it was late or just not what he fancied. does it make it ok?

Cumberbatch has apologised. I doubt he will make that mistake again. my issue is that despite his public remorse, and acknowledgement that what he said was wrong, people are still defending his use of the word.

he has accepted he was wrong, and apologised. however, from some of the comments here, it's clear that this debate is, sadly, still needed.

I must have missed those posts.

They aren't defending it ... they are explaining why/how it might have happened! Can you not see the difference?

Absolutely no one is "defending his use of the word".

If we are defending anything it's the right to make a mistake and instantly apologise without having your entire character assassinated.

In Australia, you have a lot of people from different backgrounds. Thai, Japanese, Indonesian etc etc. Even Kiwis (is that acceptable?) How do you describe those people?

They would be described as Thai, Indonesian or Japanese - of Asian if you were unsure. Kiwis are called Kiwis and it is in no way derogatory.
Australians also use shortenings and nicknames which I suppose could sound offensive but actually carry no ill-will (Sepos and Indos for example).
We shorten everything.

Aboriginal people often refer to themselves as black (black fellas is a fairly common term) but I would never use that phrase/word. I think one misconception is that Aboriginal people in Australia make up a similar minority to black people in the UK. In fact they are a tiny tiny minority. Abo is an exception to the rule when it comes to shortenings (as mentioned above) and is an offensive and derogatory term.

I guess what BC meant was " non white " as he was obviously trying to include actors who may not have described themselves as "black" so black wouldn't do.
" I think he got tripped up by " person of colour" too.
Growing up in the 80s many "people of colour" ( i don't think I would ever say that in RL!) started to use " black" in a political sense, for example the group Southall Black Sisters, who I believe are mostly of Asian origin.
In the US "Oriental" is considered racist, and is beginning to be seen as such here.
Langauge does change, and , let's face it BC is hardly going to be living in diversity land is he, he is a bit of an upper class twit.
I do think the excessive PO about it is a bit daft though. Even the current words, descriptions are not ideal. Why should we have black, white ( colours) and then Asian (place).
If you are monitoring diversity, you often get forms which differentiate between mixed race (Asian) and mixed race (black ), or specify East European, but then there is one box called White British, so if I am born in the UK but half French and half Jewish there is no box for me, because my kind of mixed race is not the kind the data collectors are interested in.
There is always an agenda, it's never as simple as a description of the way someone looks.
Tbh, in real life most people I know would describe themselves as black, white or brown. Indian friends would say they are Indian in a cultural sense, but might bemoan the lack of parts for " brown " actors, which seems fine to me.

YABU to like him in the first place.

He's horrible!

I've been reading Americanah by a black Nigerian author. Great book, but one thing that did stand out was a version of this precise issue. In Nigeria the term "half caste" was apparently seen as a positive thing, but when used in the US the (black Nigerian) character was informed about how racist it was.

It's a minefield. I do not believe BC is a racist, he made a mistake and apologized. End of.

And how is 'Aboriginal' ok, but 'Australian Aboriginies' not ok? confused

Buggered if I know. Older people still use it, but it's not perfectly pc.

Its been an education, this thread.