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Original poster

To have gone right off Benedict Cumberbatch

529 replies

UsedToBeAPaxmanFan · 27/01/2015 04:22

I read today that Benedict Cumberbatch has had to apologise after using the phrase "coloured actors". Coloured? Seriously?

He did apologise and said that he knew it was wrong, but the fact that it was in his head in the first place is what's so troubling. I am older than him and have always known that "coloured" is an offensive term. Yes, I am aware that it wasn't considered so until the late 60s, but it hasn't been acceptable in his lifetime.

What was he not thinking?

OP posts:
exWifebeginsat40 · 27/01/2015 08:24

and for those using the 'it's ok in America' defence - please take the time to read the link posted by Ehric as it explains exactly why this isn't the case.

honestly. all this huffy 'well they should make their minds up then' is more than slightly alarming...

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 27/01/2015 08:25

Ethnic not authentic!

ExitPursuedByABear · 27/01/2015 08:25

I am 55. When I heard about this I sat there and thought " shit, what is the correct terminology du jour?"

I genuinely struggle to keep up with what is and is not acceptable.

Lagoonablue · 27/01/2015 08:25

Lord. He made a mistake. He clearly feels bad. He has apologised.

Lagoonablue · 27/01/2015 08:26

He was raising a good point also which seems to have got lost.

pieceofpurplesky · 27/01/2015 08:27

merle the poem 'half-caste' is actually a comment about how incorrect the term is as he is not half anything ....

SoupDragon · 27/01/2015 08:27

He made a mistake with the terminology but his point was valid. I hope it doesn't get lost in amongst all the pearl clutching at the wrong choice of words.

SurfsUp1 · 27/01/2015 08:28

What would have been the best word to use? Black wouldn't have worked because he wasn't just talking about black people.

MrsMcColl · 27/01/2015 08:28

Yes exactly, Lagoonablue - if someone like BC wants to make a contribution to a serious debate, he should make sure he expresses himself respectfully if he wants his point to be heard.

EdSheeran · 27/01/2015 08:29

I do think some people are acting all cool about it because it's Benedict Cumberbatch. That said, I do think he was right to apologise in the way that he did. Like a PP said, unless he's been living in a cave for the last 3 decades, there's no excuse!

sunnyfrostyday · 27/01/2015 08:31

He made a mistake, apologised. Non story.

Just to add my story - in my school, early 1980's, we had a talk about racism. The speaker made it absolutely clear which words were ok, and which were not.

Black was hugely offensive (I remember him shouting "am I black? No! I am brown!).

The correct term was "coloured, and don't you ever forget it!!!"

SurfsUp1 · 27/01/2015 08:31

Asian people are Asian. They may be south Asian, or East Asian, or Pacific Islander, but those distinctions aren't necessary for you to make, unless you are asking them directly.

Pacific Islanders wouldn't consider themselves Asian

yetanotherchangename · 27/01/2015 08:32

Asian people are Asian. They may be south Asian, or East Asian, or Pacific Islander, but those distinctions aren't necessary for you to make, unless you are asking them directly. I've been taught that it is offensive to use the term Asian as it groups too many ethnicities together. I.e. why would you lump someone with Indian heritage with someone from Thailand or Japan?

I'm not saying you're wrong - but there are different views.

I know I've been so caught up in trying to find the right word sometimes that the wrong one has come out. I once accidentally used the word "coloured" - I don't know how it came out and I would be horrified if it were evidence of inherent racism on my part rather than my brain going into panic and coming up with the word that I was brought up to use.

worldgonecrazy · 27/01/2015 08:32

Ehric, that's fine, but then I get confused by an Indian friend who is actually Scottish. Her parents moved from India, so she would be "Asian" on any form, and her skin and hair colour would identify she has heritage from India. But she is not Asian, she is British and Scottish. She may share some aspects of culture with fellow descendants of immigrants that the UK refer to as "Asian" (which confuses our American cousins!). Her children do not, they are entirely Westernised, and despite their colouring, they regard themselves as British, and not Asian.

It is hard to keep up with acceptable terms. We were told that "coloured" was polite (and my family has just about every skin colour/nationality in there somewhere) and that "black" was impolite, even though the black members of the family had no problem with "black" and thought that the necessary thought going into self-correction to "coloured" was in itself, offensive as it suggested that they were other or different.

Personally I think the racism/privilege is evidenced by those who can understand why a term might be offensive, and those who can't. I had to explain to one of my parents why we don't use the term "Indian" to describe First Nation People, and why some don't like to be referred to as "Native American" and why "indigenous people of America" is too much of a mouthful.

Is offence meant? Is it taken? And can people just get over ill-judged crassness and mistakes and agree that there are more important battles to be won? At least BC's mistake has raised the issue in the public eye.

Beachcomber · 27/01/2015 08:32

I'm 41 and when I was a child we all found it hard to say anything as coloured was considered unacceptable but we found it really hard to say black as it had previously been considered unacceptable.

I was surprised when "people of colour" became ok, as it does seem to hark back to "coloured".

Haven't seen the BC footage but I can see how you could arse it up if you knew that "black" is a bit frowned upon in the US but weren't really used to the term people of colour.

I do think the intent is more important than getting terminology wrong, as long as one is willing to be told and apologize about wrong terminology.

I get uncomfortable by people being offended for groups that they do not belong to. Which is not to say that one shouldn't speak out against racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, etc.

Mynewnamenotyours · 27/01/2015 08:33

He used a descriptive word that when he was growing up was apropriate. Customs change. It is no longer the word used.
As soon as this was pointed out he apologised and changed it.
For those of us at school in the seventies it is a minefield remembering what words are currently in use.

Very much agree. I am never quite sure what words are ok but I am not racist at all. I don't give a flying f*ck what colour people's skin is.

Somebody told me off for using the term ethnic minority the other day as it seemed like by saying minority I was saying the people were inferior, not what I meant at all, but I must admit I am lost as to what is deemed acceptable language these days.

DrSethHazlittMD · 27/01/2015 08:33

As someone who works in the acting profession, there is a lot of debate presently about what is referred to as "colour blind casting" - where, say, the black actor Adrian Lester might play Richard III. We all know Richard III was white but we, as an audience, are supposed to ignore the colour of the actor's skin, whether historically correct or not, and just appreciate the actor's skill.

Apparently the use of the word "colour" is acceptable in this usage but not in others. But if you said "black blind casting" this would presumably be incorrect because you'd be jumped on by someone for excluding, by definition, Asian actors, who are not black.

In other words, it is a total minefield, with different areas, different countries, different races even, using different terminologies. Expecting every single person in the world to know which to use when is ludicrous.

Terminology is far less important than the message or the intent behind the use of it. I think some people just long to be offended - clearly no offence was meant by BC and for people to beat him over the head and make an issue out of it says more about them.

SurfsUp1 · 27/01/2015 08:34

Yes exactly, Lagoonablue - if someone like BC wants to make a contribution to a serious debate, he should make sure he expresses himself respectfully if he wants his point to be heard.
Was it a prepared speech or was he speaking off the cuff?

MrsMcColl · 27/01/2015 08:35

DrSeth, Terminology is part of the message. It's impossible to separate what someone says from the way they say it.

MrsMcColl · 27/01/2015 08:36

SurfsUp - if someone is speaking off the cuff, it's even more revealing, that this is how they think about other people!

TheWordFactory · 27/01/2015 08:38

Of course intent can be relevant.

The word queer for example can be entirely acceptable, joyful even, but it can also be derogatory.

ExitPursuedByABear · 27/01/2015 08:40

What terminology is used for Native Americans now?

worldgonecrazy · 27/01/2015 08:41

"I don't give a flying f*ck what colour people's skin is. "

I agree - then I watched a programme on YouTube where some Americans of African descent said that ignoring their skin colour meant that you were ignoring their heritage and a big part of who they were. Thankfully the American obsession with the colour of a person's skin is not as prevalent in the UK. Yes, there is still racism, but at nowhere near the levels seen in the States.

kim147 · 27/01/2015 08:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SurfsUp1 · 27/01/2015 08:41

I've been taught that it is offensive to use the term Asian as it groups too many ethnicities together. I.e. why would you lump someone with Indian heritage with someone from Thailand or Japan?
As an Australian I was shocked to see the term Oriental used to describe "Asian" things in the UK. Then again Paki is not a racist term here and is used in the same way that Aussie or Kiwi would be used.
It really is rather tricky to know what is acceptable in different countries.
I've heard lots of English people talk about Australian Aborigines however this term is not really the PC term here - I'm sure they mean no offence.

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