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AIBU?

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Original poster

To have gone right off Benedict Cumberbatch

529 replies

UsedToBeAPaxmanFan · 27/01/2015 04:22

I read today that Benedict Cumberbatch has had to apologise after using the phrase "coloured actors". Coloured? Seriously?

He did apologise and said that he knew it was wrong, but the fact that it was in his head in the first place is what's so troubling. I am older than him and have always known that "coloured" is an offensive term. Yes, I am aware that it wasn't considered so until the late 60s, but it hasn't been acceptable in his lifetime.

What was he not thinking?

OP posts:
chloepetal · 28/01/2015 00:56

It's hard to keep up with what's offensive or not. I grew up with black being offensive. Now coloured is offensive. I doubt he meant to be offensive. Gay people have now taken back the term Queer. Not long ago that was offensive.

sugarplumpfairy · 28/01/2015 01:07

The issue is - is he racist? I don't think he (and certainly hope he isn't) is.

SnowBells · 28/01/2015 01:58

After thinking about this further, I think I am more offended by the preciseness of PC wording. I really do NOT identify with any particular ethnicity at all, and it feels wrong when people try putting me in a very narrow box. I'd rather have a general description (e.g. "coloured") than something that traces back to my heritage (which is a whole load of mish mash anyway).

In fact, whenever people try going the PC route, and ask about my heritage, I feel very tense. It's like I suddenly can't be my own person, I have to be categorised into something specific. Angry

Can I let people know I get offended by their political correctness? And who are these people / powers that be who wish to tell me whenI should feel offended and that I should want to keep my ethnicity???

VeryMessyHair · 28/01/2015 08:55

it's a minefield.

I say (if asked, and I don't mind) that my children are mixed race. If I said 'dual heritage' then people would think Irish/Englsih and half of the UK and Ireland could say that. Dual Heritage for an Irish grandma is taking yourself a bit seriously I think!

CFSKate · 28/01/2015 09:02

I just read this from David Oyelowo saying "Excellence is the best weapon against prejudice. I intend to be part of the solution and not the problem. You've just got to keep on banging out good performances."

OK, but I do feel that you shouldn't have to be excellent to escape prejudice.

Tanith · 28/01/2015 15:18

This thread makes me want to hold my head in my hands and howl!!

Good heavens, if you lot can't agree over what is or is not offensive and need 480-odd pages to squabble over it, it's no wonder poor Benedict got confused!

He clearly never meant to cause offence and he's apologised.

Now: what was his real point again?!
What a shame people have been sidetracked so successfully.

Echocave · 28/01/2015 17:18

I agree with Mintyy, he may be rich and privileged but that doesn't make him a criminal in itself (even though some people here think it is). He meant to say people of colour I think.

Echocave · 28/01/2015 17:25

I meant to say also that it's to his credit that he was making the point he was at the time.

It's odd though that his agent, producers of his latest film may be most worried about the potential damage to his Oscar campaign. That really does detract from the point he was making....

Rainbunny · 28/01/2015 18:35

Did you read the context of what he was saying? His feelings are clearly 100% not racist. He misspoke, it happens. Probably it's a little stressful to be interviewed live and his brain would be running a hundred miles an hour. He was likely grasping for the right word and disastrously hit on that term. I called my boss "dad" once. Did I secretly think of him as my dad? Of course not, I was talking rapidly and the wrong word came out to my great embarrassment. You're reading too much into it.

The term he used, whilst now considered a pejorative term, was not always as you noted and even though it has been a long time since this change, it is still out there in the lexicon. There are many terms that are pejorative and have always been pejorative but he didn't say any of them did he.

amicissimma · 28/01/2015 19:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeBearPolar · 28/01/2015 19:08

Thank God for David Oyelowo speaking sense about it all, and getting pissed off with people leaping on the word and ignoring the much more important point being made.

Iggi999 · 28/01/2015 22:31

I demand the right to be merely adequate and yet not experience prejudice. Why is excellence required?

3littlefrogs · 28/01/2015 22:53

I mentioned ba ba black sheep and black board and was immediately jumped on and told it was an urban myth.
I was there - I remember it all very clearly.
I am sure there were lots of other examples but those two stick in my mind.

StarsOfTrackAndField · 28/01/2015 23:18

frogs I didn't say that. Read my post again.

I don't doubt that someone said to you that they'd heard that 'you can't say this/that sing baa baa black sheep' but they were almost certainly going from the tabloid scare story/misinformation rather than any official policy.

CeartGoLeor · 28/01/2015 23:23

Frogs, are you claiming you were at some mythic meeting where 'blackboard' and 'Baa Baa, Black Sheep' were Officially Outlawed by the Vocabulary Police? Were you there too when Christmas was replaced with 'Winterval'? Do tell. It must be great to actually live inside an urban myth.

Iggi999 · 28/01/2015 23:32

That was me frogs ! I do think it is a myth, am exaggeration at least. Not that no one told you not to say those things, but the idea that it was ever an official policy. Both posters who have mentioned this in their area come from London, so even if it was their experience it does not mean any countrywide ban on either blackboard or sheep songs!
I never say blackboard now - but only as, in common with most schools I think, we don't have one anymore!

HopelessFancyFeigned · 29/01/2015 00:02

I demand the right to be merely adequate and yet not experience prejudice. Why is excellence required?

Or indeed even to be mediocre or less and be treated the same as any other mediocrity.

I don't know who David Oyelowo is but I don't think it was pertinent.

The blackboard stuff is a myth isn't it?

3littlefrogs · 29/01/2015 06:55

I have no idea how high up in "officialdom" these things started, but the primary school my nephew was in certainly did ban Ba Ba black sheep, changed black board to chalk board, and - in a project about religious festivals referred to Christmas as "The Christian festival of light".
Maybe the head teacher was just bonkers?

I was working in local government in the early 80s and there were endless meetings and round robins about what was acceptable terminology. Much of it was probably dreamt up by individuals in middle management jobs, but it was pretty baffling at the time. We didn't have computers or internet, so much of this stuff came round on bits of paper/memos. The point is though, that a lot of what was "correct/acceptable" back then isn't any more. Things do change and not everyone can keep up.

Tanith · 29/01/2015 08:08

I remember the "black"board ban, too. I also remember being lectured about what not to say for fear of causing offence (husband and wife, for example; we must say "partner" instead).

The long list of acceptable and unacceptable terms was given at the start of an Open University course - and it was recent, within the last 10 years or so.

fascicle · 29/01/2015 08:59

3littlefrogs
The point is though, that a lot of what was "correct/acceptable" back then isn't any more. Things do change and not everyone can keep up.

Tanith
The long list of acceptable and unacceptable terms was given at the start of an Open University course - and it was recent, within the last 10 years or so.

We're just talking about a few expressions, surely? I don't think there's been much change in acceptability of phrases over the last few decades, although some people might, inadvertently perhaps, have been oblivious to the weight of some terminology. I would consider words such as 'black board' and 'husband and wife' as red herrings (i.e. not worthy of credibility as highly unlikely to cause offence).

amicissimma
I have a black friend who prefers to be called coloured. Is she wrong and wicked and racist, as you seem to imply? Am I wicked and racist if I call her by her preferred term?

Do you mean in conversations with your friend? Why would the need arise?

Chocolateteacake · 29/01/2015 12:06

I assumed 'black board' died a death because by the time I was at school they were all green. Kids use electronic doo-dahs these days anyway, so have no idea what a blackboard is.

And that there poem about skin colour - I remember seeing an animated version of it on Sesame Street (I think) ages ago.

Tanith · 29/01/2015 13:14

It was 2 or 3 sides of A4 paper, fascicle. Another which stuck in my mind was that we couldn't use "suffering" as in "suffering from" an ailment because that was disrespectful to those who were genuinely suffering. I have to admit, they began to blur after the first half of the page - and most of the class started arguing over them anyway!

I remember thinking I was going to have more of a job remembering the list than learning the course material ??

Eltonjohnsflorist · 29/01/2015 13:20

I don't understand how so many people claim to be in situations where they have to call black people "something" when does this happen? The old "pointing them
Out in the crowd" doesn't seem realistic to me at all (after all, if someone comes to me at work and says. "I'm looking for David, where does he sit?" I'm doing to say, ie, his desk is by the window on the left and point rather than "he's the black man over there" aren't i?

The only realistic time I can think you need to describe someone by their skin colour is to the police when reporting a crime.

So non issue really? If you need to keep describing people by their skin colour maybe you need to have a long look at your manners and social skills?

The "people of colour" argument is crap. It's not used in this country. In the states is clearly used in a
Very different way to coloured.

Chocolateteacake · 29/01/2015 13:42

I had to in the bank when I was asked which teller had served me the previous time I was in there. The tellers didn't have set 'windows' or desks, or name badges, and they all wore the same uniform. She had a local accent so I couldn't even say 'she has a Scottish/Irish/Liverpudlian accent'. Most workers in that branch were women, and she was the only black woman who I ever saw at that particular branch.

It's hard to describe someone from the waist up wearing a uniform and no name badge. Not that it often comes up...

Eltonjohnsflorist · 29/01/2015 13:47

If she had been fat would you have said "the grossly obsessed lady"??

To be fair, there is nothing wrong wrong with saying the lady was black / had a headscarf/ was mixed race BUT is hardly common and in banks where I live most of the counter staff are black so it wouldn't help you much to say that