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AIBU?

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Original poster

To have gone right off Benedict Cumberbatch

529 replies

UsedToBeAPaxmanFan · 27/01/2015 04:22

I read today that Benedict Cumberbatch has had to apologise after using the phrase "coloured actors". Coloured? Seriously?

He did apologise and said that he knew it was wrong, but the fact that it was in his head in the first place is what's so troubling. I am older than him and have always known that "coloured" is an offensive term. Yes, I am aware that it wasn't considered so until the late 60s, but it hasn't been acceptable in his lifetime.

What was he not thinking?

OP posts:
SconeRhymesWithGone · 27/01/2015 16:41

Also when I said "home countries" above, I should have said something along the lines of " group's country of origin." Their home country now is, of course, the US.

Daisy17 · 27/01/2015 16:43

I'm 38 and when and where I was growing up "coloured" was the correct term and black was horribly offensive. I still find it hard to say "black" now because it feels rude to me even though I am vaguely aware it's now the right thing to say. It is blooming confusing. And it's a big shame the row about the word he used is getting more coverage than what he was actually saying......

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 27/01/2015 16:44

The child is not mocking white people, she is writing about her view of how bizarre it is that white people call her coloured when she is black and not a rainbow and she stays black from the second she is born and is still black when she dies. Is that really difficult to understand? Sometimes children write things in the most accurate but innocent way.
The poem was nominated by the united nations for very good reason.
I take it you have never experienced racism yourself ?

Runawaytosea · 27/01/2015 16:50

Slightly off topic, but while we are talking etymology and use of language. I just wanted to say in response to what Quangle said re George Bush that Afghani is the currency of Afghanistan. Afghan is the correct term for someone from Afghanistan (ditto Uzbek, Turkmen etc). Stan meaning place of, so Afghanistan being place of the Afghans.

So Paki doesn't follow. Following the above logic, it should be Pak. However, the country Pakistan is based on an acronym from the 20s or 30s referring to the names of the relevant bits of the north-western (?) provinces of the British Raj (not all of them feature, but Punjab, Afgania (the North West Frontier) and Kashmir are the P, A and K of Pakistan). So there has never been a Pak people, so neither Paki or Pak are correct.

History lesson over...sorry for derailing!

And I know it's to do with brand recognition etc, but I'd just like to mention the NAACP...

I think it's a shame that an important message has been overshadowed by this debate. Surely we can have a discussion about the issue at the same time as having a discussion about the language?

ThesaurusJones · 27/01/2015 16:54

Yes, I do understand all that and as it was written by a child (though I don't know how old) I'm not blaming them.

It's just that if you imagine a poem saying things like that about a black person's skin, I doubt it would be held up as wonderful, and that's why I'm doubtful about it. It seems - well as Caronaim says, kind of racist. That isn't to say racism against blacks hasn't been far far worse, of course it has. But I'd rather see something that doesn't make a point of picking on people's skin colour, even as a reaction to racism.

And yes I have experienced racism thanks very much. You don't have a clue who I am or what ethnicity I am, and that's a bit of an assumption to make.

YoullShootYourEyeOut · 27/01/2015 16:59

You were bu to like him in the first place. What on earth do women see in him? He plays weird people and looks weird. Urgh.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 27/01/2015 17:03

I take children's words mainly as Observations. I do to think many young children can be seen to be racist as they often just say what they see (like the child who wrote the poem).
I remember taking my child (non white) to school when he was in reception and he told me he wasn't going to play with any of the black children and didn't want to be friends with them because they are all naughty. He was adamant that he wasn't black and neither were any of the mixed race children. He wasn't being racist - he was five years old. He had simply made an observation that the children in his class with the darkest skin were the naughty ones. He described himself and some of the other children as being 'brown' rather than black. The child in the poem is no more racist than my five year old who made an observation based on what he saw.
Fortunately the UN have some sense and could see that the poem writer was making an observation based on a child's innocence of the world and that she wasn't being racist. Unfortunately others don't seem to have that level of common sense.
Benedict cumberbatch should have known better, he is neither an innocent child nor an elderly person who has grown up with the word colored being the acceptable term. The fact he would use the word in the first place doesn't make his apology okay. I wouldn't feel the same if he was 80 years old as I would be able to put it into a different context.

BeautyQueenFromMars · 27/01/2015 17:28

So nobody has ever accidentally used the wrong word when they meant something else then? Maybe whilst he was speaking, he was mentally scanning through what terminology is currently acceptable (as I do when talking about many things), and the wrong term came out. I have done this more than once - thought 'don't say that word' and of course I've used that exact word. e.g. 'Bullshit' instead of 'rubbish' in front of my parents, who hate swearing of any kind.

maddy68 · 27/01/2015 17:30

He made a mistake

ThesaurusJones · 27/01/2015 17:31

Actually on a slightly different point I'll eat my hat if that poem is the work of a young child and is merely an "innocent" description of "what they see". It has a sophisticated structure, political force and "clever clever" style that is either the work of a much older teenager, or was the result of a lot of adult help. It's nothing like the style of really young children's poetry.

Chocolateteacake · 27/01/2015 17:38

Its a funny old thing, describing people by skin tone.

I still remember the day when DH got an invite to join the 'Black [ABC] Union' - he wasn't impressed that everyone without a 'white' skin or name was lumped together (especially in such a 'right on' industry). He's from the ME and not black or brown or olivey skinned. In fact, he's lighter than my dad was.

kissmethere · 27/01/2015 17:41

Haven't reads the whole thread.
I was shocked when I read what he said it gives me the impression he's soo out of date and abit old fashioned ??
I thought he was a man of the world.
Coloured to me is what I've heard much older people use even nowadays. I say black, everyone I know does. If I said "coloured" to any black person I know I think they'd think I'd had a turn.

Caronaim · 27/01/2015 17:47

err, sorry to disappoint you, but that poem has been around way longer than since 2006, and is not a child's poem either, and yes, it is offensive and racist.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 27/01/2015 17:50

Maybe whilst he was speaking, he was mentally scanning through what terminology is currently acceptable

Somebody of his age shouldn't have to mentally scan to discount the word coloured because it isn't a word that had ever been acceptable in his lifetime. Bullshit is an easy mistake word because it is a word which is used in modern society and isn't offensive.

Willferrellisactuallykindahot · 27/01/2015 17:50

the poem writer was making an observation based on a child's innocence of the world

I wonder how many blue, yellow or green people the average African child has seen?

Anyway, I think everyone (including Benedict Cumberbatch himself it seems) agrees that 'coloured' is a shit term to use.

Runawaytosea · 27/01/2015 17:51

That's a poem that has been around for a fair few decades! Not entirely sure about the attribution - the wonders of google aren't clear, but include Malcolm X and an unidentified pupil at King Edward VI School, Birmingham among others. From the archive of the Chicago Tribune in 1989:

The same poem

There are also differences between the various versions either being in "correct" English or not, as above, with various debates about whether it is racist to have it not in proper English because you are saying black people can't be expected to speak properly.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 27/01/2015 17:53

err, sorry to disappoint you, but that poem has been around way longer than since 2006, and is not a child's poem either, and yes, it is offensive and racist.

If that is the case then I will stand corrected. I am happy to admit my mistakes. It doesn't change my view on BD using the word coloured.

Behooven · 27/01/2015 17:55

Mistake made, apology made, non story

londonrach · 27/01/2015 18:09

Likewise daisy. Im your age and was told never to use the word black.

mrsruffallo · 27/01/2015 18:12

I think he was just trying to be polite, in his own way. I say 'black' but then I was brought up in a multi cultural, urban environment. I imagine if that is what people around you have used as you were growing up then it's quite easy to slip back into it.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 27/01/2015 18:13

runaway after using google it does seem that you are correct and that the poem has been around long before 2006. 2006 was the year it was nominated as the poem of the year. The actual origins of the poem seem to be unknown with some stating an African child wrote it and others citing Malcolm X and a few other sources alongside.
I could well imagine that it goes as far back as Malcolm X and if not written by him being written by somebody involved in the civil movement. But I don't know and it doesn't look like I am going to find out. Thank you for correcting me.

By (black) grandfather still uses the term coloured and I have to constantly remind him that it isn't an acceptable word. My grandfather is 91 later this year and can't get his head around the fact that it isn't the acceptable word to use, but I can forgive him and any other people over the age of 70 because the word is he one that was acceptable when they were fit 20 and 30 something's and it's pretty hard to change decades of normality when the persons brain is no longer as functional as it used to be.
BD on the other hand has neither the excuse of growing up with colored being the normal and acceptable word nor the excuse that he is forgetful due to his ageing state.

mrsruffallo · 27/01/2015 18:18

The media seem to have it in for BC at the mo don't they? I wonder why.

susiedaisy · 27/01/2015 18:33

Yabu. When I grew up in the 1980's you weren't allowed to say black but had to say coloured. Then overnight it seemed coloured was wrong and we were allowed to say black. I can remember feeling completely baffled. And it took a long time of me mentally checking with myself to make sure I didn't use the wrong word. But about two years ago at work I used the word coloured accidentally I don't know where it came from, and the person I was chatting to didn't seem to notice but I felt dreadful.

fascicle · 27/01/2015 18:50

When I grew up in the 1980's you weren't allowed to say black but had to say coloured.

Not when you grew up (where, maybe). Some of us grew up in the 70s and 80s and used the term black and not coloured.

Inthedarkaboutfashion · 27/01/2015 18:51

I grew up in the 80's and coloured was not an acceptable term. Maybe it varied across different regions.