To have gone right off Benedict Cumberbatch

[UsedToBeAPaxmanFan]

I read today that Benedict Cumberbatch has had to apologise after using the phrase "coloured actors". Coloured? Seriously?

He did apologise and said that he knew it was wrong, but the fact that it was in his head in the first place is what's so troubling. I am older than him and have always known that "coloured" is an offensive term. Yes, I am aware that it wasn't considered so until the late 60s, but it hasn't been acceptable in his lifetime.

What was he not thinking?

I have not been to US or Canada for years but about twenty years ago when I was there the accepted term for people who identified themselves as aboriginal people of that continent was native American or native Canadian. I was talking to soneone the other day and they referred to them as "first people". So terminology does change, and sometimes no offence at all is meant if someone uses the "wrong" term. (Obviously not referring to the N-word or similar).

"Aborigine" is a word that describes any original inhabitants of any country.

I suppose use of it for Australian Aborigines would be the same as describing Native Americans as "natives".

But surely the 'translation' for 'Australian Aborigines' is 'Native Australians' which is the same as 'Native American' (or is Native American not acceptable?)

YABU.

I think as others have said, he was struggling to know the correct term in the US - it's enough of a minefield figuring out what is correct in the UK, to have to know for the US as well, and swap between the two, must be a nightmare. 'People of colour' is a perfectly acceptable term in the US for anyone non-white, I think Bendydick probably got tongue-tied, as many of us do regularly.

Not sure this makes him a privileged elitist whatever, or is worth 'going off him', but some people will find offence in other people's mistakes even when they've apologised.

He used an inappropriate term but I do not believe for a moment that Cumberbatch is a racist. His apology certainly sounds sincere to me.

(and I'm not even a particular fan of his either)

I feel sorry for BC - he's clearly mortified by his stumble and the last thing he would ever want to do is offend anyone. It can get confusing as to what words are acceptable in different countries. For example I was in Cape Town a couple of years ago and was told by a mixed race guy that "coloured" isn't an offensive word in South Africa at all. I heard that word used a lot there and found it really jarring at first but after a while I got used to hearing it. (Not used to it enough to start using it myself though.)

Hmmm.

I am not sure at all if I making any valid point, but what I mean is....

Native...means any native anywhere. Native Americans offers an identity and inclusion with the population of a certain country.

I would imagine aborigine vs Aboriginal people/Australians makes a similar distinction.

Yes I see what you are saying but i thought that surf said that 'Australian Aborigine' was not acceptable, but 'Aboriginal' was.

I think I may have misunderstood though.

I'm sure it's been said but I think black is unacceptable in the US while it is acceptable here. I actually thought coloured was acceptable in the US although I think that has now changed to person of colour. I think he just made a mistake on the what the terminology was in the US. No offence was meant clearly. I went to school in the 70s and 80s. We had absolutely no teaching about what was or wasn't acceptable. Some of the misconceptions in this thread are outstanding. Some are judging him on him saying coloured in this country whereas he said it in the US where the terminology is different.

I have a friend who describes herself as half-caste. I wouldn't say that but not sure what I'd use if I ever had to use something, not that it's come up. It's a complicated issue made worse by politically correct governments coming up with crap like you can't say blackboard or black sheep etc.

What confuses me is that nobody is actually black yet we call pretty much anyone who is not white black

I suppose I'm not actually White. But coloured seems much more appropriate to be honest. People are all shades of colour, not just black. (Or white)

Actually, is West Indian offensive? Should it be Afro Caribbean now?

They describe two different things.

The West Indies are a geographical region, not a description of ethnicity.

Not all people who live in that region are of African heritage by any stretch. The region is incredibly diverse: with people with roots in the Indian subcontinent (they are actually the largest ethnic group in Trinidad & Tobago) China and Europe as well (White-Bermudans make up 30% of that country's population).

Afro-Caribbeans (or African-Caribbeans) refers specifically to people who trace their heritage to Africa via the Caribbean. Both living in the Caribbean itself and beyond.

I personally wouldn't describe anyone as being 'West Indian' especially if you are using it to describe someone who was born and bought up in Britain (and increasingly their parents and grandparents being born and brought up in Britain).

Oh

So.....

Australian Aborigine - bad
Australian Aboriginal - bad
Aboriginal - OK

Clearly Aboriginal is OK. So it's the use of the word "Australian"?

Maybe they don't like using the name of the country because they consider it imposed on them by "incomers"?

Sorry..I am interested now. That's the only reason I keep discussing it.

What confuses me is that nobody is actually black yet we call pretty much anyone who is not white black

Yes, 'black' is a bit of a strange description, because no one is actually 'black' are they? I don't know, brown feels a bit weird, like saying 'oooo brown people'.

I suppose I'm not actually White. But coloured seems much more appropriate to be honest. People are all shades of colour, not just black. (Or white)

But unless you are starting from the premise that the default colour is white, then 'coloured' could literally mean anyone of any colour, in which case it is a useless description. It's best left alone IMO.

All my family uses different terms to refer both to themselves and to other people. I wouldn't use "coloured" as see it as very outmoded, but I remember watching my (brown) ex-H arguing with Famous Anti-Racist Activist about using that word - ex-H (who is considerably younger than me) was using it, to my astonishment, and Famous Activist was telling him how very wrong he was.

I'm not a particular fan of Bendypants Cummerband (tho I like Sherlock), but I think he's a) posh and b) probably got confused with the whole "People of Colour" thing.

Am now having fond memories of that hapless American news anchor who didn't know what terms were acceptable in South Africa, so described Nelson Mandela as "African-American".

...though I think that might be symptomatic of how tumblr and other social media imposes US norms on the rest of the English-speaking world. I've noticed that Americans tend to always view race relations and history as though the American model is replicated exactly elsewhere, and should be talked about in the same way, when it very clearly isn't and shouldn't be.

caffe ill admit, I have no idea now, im totally lost! grin]

I now think surf may have just been making an 'Aborigine' / 'Aboriginal' distinction, and the 'Australian' bit was just to make clear it was Australians she was talking about? In which case you would be right, so 'aborigine' would not be acceptable (because it just means 'native') although 'Australian Aborigine' might be because its just the equivalent to 'Native American'?

I think will just say 'Aboriginal' from now on.........actually its quite interesting because I never actually realised there was a difference between the two words, I sort of thought it was whichever came out of your mouth at the time!

Yes I see what you are saying but i thought that surf said that 'Australian Aborigine' was not acceptable, but 'Aboriginal' was.

That's pretty much it.
Aborigine is just an outmoded word now whereas Aboriginal is not. There is no logic to it that I can see, but the Australian situation is filled with raw emotion and very current problems. I think sometimes these lines are drawn more along the emotive lines than along lines based on the logic of semantics.

I know my Mum's friend was upset because she was told off for referring to someone as an Aborigine - and was told to use Koori. What she didn't realise though, was that Koori is the name for Aboriginal people from a specific region so when she went to Western Australia and referred to someone as Koori they got really annoyed too - she was trying to be respectful.

It's a line that many white Australians even, would rarely have to consider because they simply do not come across Aboriginal people in their day to day lives. No one would expect someone from another country to be aware of these very delicate issues.

Aborigine is outmoded even with "Australian" in front of it.

In my kids school when they were choosing their options I was horrified to hear my daughter say to her Pakistani friend that she didn't want to do a certain subject ' asthat's a brown kid subject'. Meaning it's for the really brainy kids. Apparently, that's the way the kids speak in school. My daughter is absolutely not racist and she was shocked that I was horrified she'd used the term 'brown kid'. She said she gets called 'white kid' and has no issue with it. It's just what they do at school.

Also, I am a child of the 70's and was brought up to believe that coloured is the correct term and 'black' was offensive.

Ehric
A language point of view is irrelevant here.

Seriously?

Isn't it all about language?

It's only a minefield if you let it be.

Anyone finding fault with BC after he has apologised really really needs more things in their lives.

Coloured, black, white, Asian blah blah. It's fashion and language change. It's not set in stone and no one has the right to tell anyone else how they prefer to be defined.

I am English dm is welsh and df is a yank. That's our choice.

Too much angst.

Well, I can sort of see the point if it is aborigine vs Aboriginal, regardless of the Australian bit.

But I see what you mean re: the rest of your post.

Never having ever set foot in Australia, I wouldn't have a clue. It's good to know, though.

politically correct governments coming up with crap like you can't say blackboard or black sheep etc.

Okay Bobby, what exactly do you want to say but can't?

Can you point to a single piece of legislation or a single government minister saying that you can't say blackboard or black sheep? (Here's a tip, don't waste your time looking)

The whole blackboard/black sheep/black bin liner were tabloid myths drummed up by the Sun as part of their crusade against so called 'loony left' councils.

This had the effect of some well-meaning but ultimately dim local officials, head teachers, nursery managers reading or hearing about these stories and thinking there was a real ban.

Like when you get that other tabloid favourite, the 'health and safety gone mad' stories, it is rarely actual policy and almost always an individual misunderstanding legislation or enforcing it it an overly zealous manner.

I was a child of the 70s and have always known 'coloured' is not an acceptable term.

These things are not "hard to keep up with" as some have said. Really they're not.

While I'm at BC using the term in the first place, at least he has made a proper apology rather than make excuses I'm thinking of Gervais and his disablist language.

the term 'afro Caribbean' causes offence as well.

a panel member used it on Question Time a while ago and a lady in the audience said it was inappropriate.